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Fastest Recumbent (Read 9760 times)
jayg
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #15 - Aug 2nd, 2011, 8:24pm
 
Quote from power_bent on Aug 2nd, 2011, 7:35pm:
Sounds good Jay...I said what i said becuase of to many varables as grease in wheels and rear freewheel drag and to tires differences and weight . But what you did is close enough for what your doing.I was thinking the baron should have won but it didn't.
Later

 
I cruised at 23 mph on the Musashi this morning on West Lawther. Don't think I can sustain 23 mph on the Baron. I'm going to convert the rear gearing to close-ratio 10-speed, like the Musashi's. After I do it, I'll take it out and see if I can match the above cruising speed.
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aikigreg
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #16 - Aug 2nd, 2011, 9:43pm
 
All a coast down test does, Jay, is show which bike is lower to the ground and weighs more.  Looks at your results and it becomes obvious.  Most B riders I ride with ride much more reclined but they rarely beat me down the hills unless they crank.  My fat butt overcomes a lot!   But all that mass has to go right back uphill, and now we're talking about weight again, in reverse.  I bet if you did a lot of hill CLIMBS your results would be based purely on weight.  However, a mile of cruising on flat ground at the same wattage will tell you a lot more about true power to the pedals.
 
Powertaps can be had relatively cheaply compared to the cost of the bikes in your stable  Grin.  You'd only need 1 in 650 and 1 in 700.  Dana had a special for the hub at 699.  Mount them both to the same cheap wheel.
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rmillay
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #17 - Aug 2nd, 2011, 10:03pm
 
It's not your weight, Greg, but its distribution!  Grin
 
The real loser was the trike, which has more frictional drag problems, not to mention the curves on the test course.  BTW, I hit 26.1 mph with my Cat 700 under similar circumstances this morning.
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jayg
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #18 - Aug 3rd, 2011, 11:06am
 
Quote from aikigreg on Aug 2nd, 2011, 9:43pm:
All a coast down test does, Jay, is show which bike is lower to the ground and weighs more.  Looks at your results and it becomes obvious.  Most B riders I ride with ride much more reclined but they rarely beat me down the hills unless they crank.  My fat butt overcomes a lot!   But all that mass has to go right back uphill, and now we're talking about weight again, in reverse.  I bet if you did a lot of hill CLIMBS your results would be based purely on weight.  However, a mile of cruising on flat ground at the same wattage will tell you a lot more about true power to the pedals.

Powertaps can be had relatively cheaply compared to the cost of the bikes in your stable  Grin.  You'd only need 1 in 650 and 1 in 700.  Dana had a special for the hub at 699.  Mount them both to the same cheap wheel.

 
Greg, from what I understand drag starts to become the most significant factor in resisting forward movement at 15 mph and over (that's why I did running starts at about 15 mph in my test runs). If conducted properly, coast down tests should reveal the most aero recumbent to the least in order. The most aero should require the least cranking effort at say 23 mph on the flats. In my case (My Carbent and I weigh a total of about 168 lbs) I pass heavier, tucked roadies, in high-speed coasting down steep hills. This can only be attributed to superior aerodynamics.
 
I'm an older rider - new bikes, not expensive power meters and associated computers, are on my bucket list.  Smiley  
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Bud_Bent
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #19 - Aug 3rd, 2011, 1:30pm
 
Again, it's not just aerodynamics. Gravity has its say; more weight makes you go downhill faster.
 
Quote from jayg on Aug 3rd, 2011, 11:06am:
Greg, from what I understand drag starts to become the most significant factor in resisting forward movement at 15 mph and over

 
If you're going downhill, it's not just forward movement, is it? It's also downward movement.
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« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2011, 1:32pm by Bud_Bent »  

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rmillay
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #20 - Aug 3rd, 2011, 1:54pm
 
Again I will remind you, Bud, the weight (or mass) of a falling object does not appear in the equation for acceleration due to gravity.  Thanks to that meddling Italian, Galileo, we have to face it, that gravity only works against us, not for us.   Smiley
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power_bent
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #21 - Aug 3rd, 2011, 3:15pm
 
Quote from power_bent on Aug 1st, 2011, 8:17pm:
That good info jay, If i remember correctly on my trike when i do about 10 or 11 mph on the crest and i get right at 27 mph at the bottom.. Pretty close to ya..

  Hint what I said about the crest and what it is at bottom????
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power_bent
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #22 - Aug 3rd, 2011, 3:21pm
 
Hey jay, here something you can do and only you because of your unique setup and tested. Take your fastest bike duplicate the same test but add weight like 50 lbs without restricting the airflow or aero of the bike and see what up..
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johnnybent
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #23 - Aug 3rd, 2011, 3:36pm
 
ya'll just got it all wrong....it ain't got nuthin ta do with weight, aerodamictics or whatever....It's gotta be RED!  Ya know like them Italian sports cars.  
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #24 - Aug 3rd, 2011, 5:11pm
 
Quote from johnnybent on Aug 3rd, 2011, 3:36pm:
ya'll just got it all wrong....it ain't got nuthin ta do with weight, aerodamictics or whatever....It's gotta be RED!  Ya know like them Italian sports cars.  

 
Best answer all thread!!!!  Jay you gotta quit buying those black bikes - that is why i'm kicking your butt on the actionbent!   Wink
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« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2011, 5:12pm by TonyWard »  

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power_bent
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #25 - Aug 3rd, 2011, 5:47pm
 
Quote from TonyWard on Aug 3rd, 2011, 5:11pm:
Quote from johnnybent on Aug 3rd, 2011, 3:36pm:
ya'll just got it all wrong....it ain't got nuthin ta do with weight, aerodamictics or whatever....It's gotta be RED!  Ya know like them Italian sports cars.  


Best answer all thread!!!!  Jay you gotta quit buying those black bikes - that is why i'm kicking your butt on the actionbent!   Wink

 LMAO...
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Keep Pedaling,the power coming
Midracer being built
Homebuilt Bike X orange
Homebuilt Squared High Racer (20")
Catrike Expedition ( Red)
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jayg
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #26 - Aug 3rd, 2011, 6:12pm
 
Quote from johnnybent on Aug 3rd, 2011, 3:36pm:
ya'll just got it all wrong....it ain't got nuthin ta do with weight, aerodamictics or whatever....It's gotta be RED!  Ya know like them Italian sports cars.  

 
You have two fast red bikes, but I never see you on them. Still think you have them hung from the ceiling of your apartment as mobiles.  Smiley
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power_bent
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #27 - Aug 3rd, 2011, 6:49pm
 
Quote from jayg on Aug 3rd, 2011, 6:12pm:
Quote from johnnybent on Aug 3rd, 2011, 3:36pm:
ya'll just got it all wrong....it ain't got nuthin ta do with weight, aerodamictics or whatever....It's gotta be RED!  Ya know like them Italian sports cars.  


You have two fast red bikes, but I never see you on them. Still think you have them hung from the ceiling of your apartment as mobiles.  Smiley

 
 
 LOL
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Keep Pedaling,the power coming
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jayg
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #28 - Aug 3rd, 2011, 7:02pm
 
Quote from Bud_Bent on Aug 3rd, 2011, 1:30pm:
Again, it's not just aerodynamics. Gravity has its say; more weight makes you go downhill faster.

Quote from jayg on Aug 3rd, 2011, 11:06am:
Greg, from what I understand drag starts to become the most significant factor in resisting forward movement at 15 mph and over


If you're going downhill, it's not just forward movement, is it? It's also downward movement.

 
Bob M, I think I'm going to have to part way with the Galileo argument and agree with Bud. Spent the whole day researching this question (I've said before that I have a lot of free time  Smiley) until my head was about to explode. This question about weight affecting downhill speed has been discussed in many articles and forums with many people taking opposing positions. I refreshed my memory of inclined plane dynamics and found that acceleration of a rider down a uniform slope is equal to the force component parallel to the slope (This force component includes a portion of the rider's weight, minus rolling resistance, minus an increasing drag force) divided by the rider's mass. So, weight of the rider plus the bike does make a difference.
 
Here is an excerpt from one of articles I found: "Thus, the terminal velocity is roughly proportional to the square root of the ratio of M/A. Scaling reveals that larger cyclists have a greater ratio of mass to frontal area. They therefore descend hills faster as a consequence of purely physical, not physiological, laws. Since the larger cyclist has a greater mass, gravity acts on him or her with a greater force than it does on a smaller cyclist. (Note: A common misconception is to note the equal acceleration of two different sized objects in free fall in a vacuum, and assume that the force of gravity on both is equal. The force on the more massive object is greater, being exactly proportional to mass, which is why the more massive object is accelerated at the same rate as the less massive one.) While the larger cyclist also has a greater absolute frontal area than the smaller cyclist, the difference is not as great as that for their masses. Thus, the larger cyclist will attain a greater s3 before a balance of forces results in terminal velocity."
 
Regarding the question of whether or not my lighter bikes should have been ballasted, so all of them would have been of equal weight - The weight difference between the lightest and heaviest is 13 pounds. Might have been a good idea to do that.
 
Hope this puts an end to the discussion. My head hurts.  Smiley
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« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2011, 7:21pm by jayg »  
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jayg
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Re: Fastest Recumbent
Reply #29 - Aug 3rd, 2011, 7:11pm
 
Quote from TonyWard on Aug 3rd, 2011, 5:11pm:
Quote from johnnybent on Aug 3rd, 2011, 3:36pm:
ya'll just got it all wrong....it ain't got nuthin ta do with weight, aerodamictics or whatever....It's gotta be RED!  Ya know like them Italian sports cars.  


Best answer all thread!!!!  Jay you gotta quit buying those black bikes - that is why i'm kicking your butt on the actionbent!   Wink

 
It's not nice to pick on your elders. I'd like to see you and Johnnybent race your red ActionBents for pink slips. That way one of you could increase your stable of red bikes at no cost.  Smiley
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