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Rolling Resistance (Read 1225 times)
UofHLesley




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Rolling Resistance
Jun 9th, 2009, 3:52pm
 
When making power requirement calculations for my groups human powered vehicle project, I encountered questions about rolling resistance which I have not been able to locate the answers to in my textbooks, through anyone I've asked, or through the internet.
 
To start, I can't find a value for rolling resistance for road tires that have a thicker tread for more versatile terrain conditions. I can find values for some road tires and a few mountain bike tires, but even those values often do not seem correct and contradict each other. I have heard I will have to contact a vendor for that. For now I have just used a range of values, but I will have to find a more specific value.
 
Further, how are the coefficients determined? A unitless value is given, but what all does that entail? The coefficient of rolling resistance has to be measured relative to a surface, but surfaces vary in roughness. How is that accounted for, or is there a general rule about a particular surface used for the value?
 
Could anyone please enlighten me on this subject and/or help me with a value to use for the calculation?
 
Thank you,
 
Lesley
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« Last Edit: Jun 10th, 2009, 8:28am by UofHLesley »  
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FlyingLaZBoy
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Re: Rolling Resistance
Reply #1 - Jun 9th, 2009, 7:36pm
 
Ah, Grasshopper, you have stumbled upon one of the basic bones of contention amongst cyclists -- the "Which Tire Is Fastest" conundrum!!!  Be VERY, very careful when you open this can of worms...   Cheesy Wink
 
In my couple of years of Randonneuring (a French word, meaning "Insane Miles"), basically, I'd have to say that changing road surface conditions FAR outweigh effects of particular tire comparisons.  Going from smooth pavement to fresh "chipseal" and back will result in a speed change of several (2-4) mph alone.  
 
 I'm not sure myself where to find "official" rolling resistance figures, but the "conventional wisdom" is thus:
 
*  Wider, somewhat lower pressure tires roll better over rough surfaces than high pressure skinny ones; For fastest riding, most people prefer skinny, high pressure tires, but they pay for it on rough surfaces through a rougher ride.  
*  Sidewall flex is a contributor -- a stiff sidewall creates more rolling resistance;
*  Tread also creates rolling resistance, and tread isn't really needed on a bike for road riding, since you cannot get a bike up to hydroplaning speeds -- especially since the contact patch to the road is oblong.  So go with "slicks"...  (What's a "City" tire?)
*  Rotational inertia also comes into play, especially in racing where acceleration counts.  
*  Spokes also contribute to aerodynamic resistance, which is why people utilize disk wheel covers.
 
Ultimately, for a "Utility" vehicle, include a Kevlar belt or some sort of "puncture proofing" in your tires, whatever you pick.  Because flats happen, usually at the most inconvenient time -- and getting a wheel off of a loaded trike creates its own issues.   Smiley
 
Ah, mechanical engineering...  those were the days...   Smiley
 
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« Last Edit: Jun 9th, 2009, 7:36pm by FlyingLaZBoy »  

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bikerteam
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Re: Rolling Resistance
Reply #2 - Jun 10th, 2009, 5:46am
 
Either subscribe to, or go to Bicycle Quarterly (http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/contents.html).  Jan Hine has done numerous rolling resistance tests, not on a drum as most mfg. do, but actual "roll down" tests.  One of the issues I have to discusses this topic is Vol. 5 No.3.
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Ray Torrey
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UofHLesley




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Re: Rolling Resistance
Reply #3 - Jun 12th, 2009, 1:17pm
 
Quote from FlyingLaZBoy on Jun 9th, 2009, 7:36pm:
Ah, Grasshopper, you have stumbled upon one of the basic bones of contention amongst cyclists -- the "Which Tire Is Fastest" conundrum!!!  Be VERY, very careful when you open this can of worms...   Cheesy Wink

In my couple of years of Randonneuring (a French word, meaning "Insane Miles"), basically, I'd have to say that changing road surface conditions FAR outweigh effects of particular tire comparisons.  Going from smooth pavement to fresh "chipseal" and back will result in a speed change of several (2-4) mph alone.  

I'm not sure myself where to find "official" rolling resistance figures, but the "conventional wisdom" is thus:

*  Wider, somewhat lower pressure tires roll better over rough surfaces than high pressure skinny ones; For fastest riding, most people prefer skinny, high pressure tires, but they pay for it on rough surfaces through a rougher ride.  
*  Sidewall flex is a contributor -- a stiff sidewall creates more rolling resistance;
*  Tread also creates rolling resistance, and tread isn't really needed on a bike for road riding, since you cannot get a bike up to hydroplaning speeds -- especially since the contact patch to the road is oblong.  So go with "slicks"...  (What's a "City" tire?)
*  Rotational inertia also comes into play, especially in racing where acceleration counts.  
*  Spokes also contribute to aerodynamic resistance, which is why people utilize disk wheel covers.

Ultimately, for a "Utility" vehicle, include a Kevlar belt or some sort of "puncture proofing" in your tires, whatever you pick.  Because flats happen, usually at the most inconvenient time -- and getting a wheel off of a loaded trike creates its own issues.   Smiley

Ah, mechanical engineering...  those were the days...   Smiley


 
 Grin yes the topic has been driving me crazy. I really like the Kevlar belt suggestion. We will keep that in mind.  
 
And by city tire I mean a tire that has some tread so it's somewhat more puncture resistant than many road tires, but it is not as knobby either as most mountain bike tires. I would insert a picture here which would be a lot easier, but I haven't had time to set a photobucket accnt up yet.
 
Thank you for spreading the wisdom  Wink
 
Lesley
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UofHLesley




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Re: Rolling Resistance
Reply #4 - Jun 12th, 2009, 1:18pm
 
Quote from bikerteam on Jun 10th, 2009, 5:46am:
Either subscribe to, or go to Bicycle Quarterly (http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/contents.html).  Jan Hine has done numerous rolling resistance tests, not on a drum as most mfg. do, but actual "roll down" tests.  One of the issues I have to discusses this topic is Vol. 5 No.3.  

 
I will look into that Smiley sounds helpful. Thanks!
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Opus the Poet
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Re: Rolling Resistance
Reply #5 - Jun 13th, 2009, 12:05am
 
Quote from UofHLesley on Jun 12th, 2009, 1:17pm:


Grin yes the topic has been driving me crazy. I really like the Kevlar belt suggestion. We will keep that in mind.

And by city tire I mean a tire that has some tread so it's somewhat more puncture resistant than many road tires, but it is not as knobby either as most mountain bike tires. I would insert a picture here which would be a lot easier, but I haven't had time to set a photobucket accnt up yet.

Thank you for spreading the wisdom Wink

Lesley

There are road slicks that have much greater puncture resistance than treaded tires which have thin spots by their nature. At least with a road slick you have uniform puncture resistance or vulnerability. Unless you are planning extensive off-pavement excursions stick with the slicks. Getting a grip on uneven surfaces is the only engineering reason for treaded bike tires, and there are so many arguments against treaded tires. If you're building for the ASME competition their rules tend to favor trikes, and the physics of trikes trend to favor small wheels with fat tires unless special hubs or wheels are used.
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UofHLesley




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Re: Rolling Resistance
Reply #6 - Jun 14th, 2009, 3:24pm
 
Quote from Opus the Poet on Jun 13th, 2009, 12:05am:


There are road slicks that have much greater puncture resistance than treaded tires which have thin spots by their nature. At least with a road slick you have uniform puncture resistance or vulnerability. Unless you are planning extensive off-pavement excursions stick with the slicks. Getting a grip on uneven surfaces is the only engineering reason for treaded bike tires, and there are so many arguments against treaded tires. If you're building for the ASME competition their rules tend to favor trikes, and the physics of trikes trend to favor small wheels with fat tires unless special hubs or wheels are used.

 
The utility course will likely have an area of rough terrain, but they do not release how rough or how large the section will be. At the competition in Philadelphia this year, the rough terrain patch was like a 20 foot stretch of gravel that the vehicle went through every lap and there were about 35 laps total.  
 
I see what you are saying about the uniform puncture resistance the slicks provide. thanks!
 
Lesley
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