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650C x 28 tire experience? (Read 7411 times)
FlyingLaZBoy
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650C x 28 tire experience?
Oct 8th, 2008, 3:56pm
 
Anyone used the 650C x 28mm Terry Tellus?  I'm looking for a wider tire for the back of the XS, and there ain't much out there....   Sad
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aikigreg
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #1 - Oct 8th, 2008, 4:59pm
 
why a wider tire?
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FlyingLaZBoy
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #2 - Oct 8th, 2008, 7:22pm
 
Just to get a bit more cush for things like 300Ks and stuff...  considering the weight distribution, and my weight...
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Kwijybow
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #3 - Oct 8th, 2008, 8:19pm
 
Ray has em and I think really likes them, unfortunately they wouldn't fit onto the Corsa.
 
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bikerteam
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #4 - Oct 9th, 2008, 9:44am
 
Paul - IMHO they are really good tires.  I've used them on my Aero for more than a year.  Only flat was immediately after mounting them, probably a pinch flat.  Not sure the mileage (several thousand miles easy), I've used them exclusively, other than the few times I've mounted my Zipp 404s (for racing).
http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2147
 
They certainly ride smoother than any 650 x 23 tires I've used. And they roll great too.  They roll as well as any tire I've used.  According to roll down tests perfomed by Jan Hine (http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/vbqindex.html)
 
[Different link -- PB:     http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/images/BQ64TireTest.pdf ]
 
, wider tires generally toll faster than skinny tires.  For example, see Vol. 5, No. 1 (Autumn 2006) - The Performance of Tires (Rolling Resistance Tests).  This periodical is great for any Randonneur.  
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« Last Edit: Oct 10th, 2008, 12:19pm by FlyingLaZBoy »  

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MrOverdressed
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #5 - Oct 9th, 2008, 10:18am
 
Quote from bikerteam on Oct 9th, 2008, 9:44am:

wider tires generally toll faster than skinny tires.  For example, see Vol. 5, No. 1 (Autumn 2006) - The Performance of Tires (Rolling Resistance Tests).  This periodical is great for any Randonneur.  

 
From what Ive read, this is true at the same tire pressure.   That is why skinner tires need to be kept at higher pressures.  Then they roll faster then fat tires.
 
For example at 90psi the fat tire is faster then a skinyr tire that is also pumped to 90psi..   BUT 90psi might be the fat tires max pressure.  Pump up the skinner tire to its max pressure (lets say 130psi), and it rolls as good or better then the fat tire and is more areo.
 
What creates wattage loss in a tire is the "tire flex" needed to create the "contact patch" where the tire meets the pavement.  The tire absorbs energy when it flexes.   Skinny tires have a long elliptical contact patch that requires more tire flex to create. Fat tires have a round contact patch that require little contact pressure.  So the higher pressure on the skinner tire reduces its power robbing flex.
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« Last Edit: Oct 9th, 2008, 10:19am by MrOverdressed »  

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MrOverdressed
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #6 - Oct 9th, 2008, 10:21am
 
Quote from FlyingLaZBoy on Oct 8th, 2008, 3:56pm:
Anyone used the 650C x 28mm Terry Tellus?  I'm looking for a wider tire for the back of the XS, and there ain't much out there....   Sad

 
Thanks for the heads up!  I did not know such a thing existed as 28mm 650c tires.  WHen I looked all I could find is 19 to 23mm 650c tires.  I've installed 559 mtn bike wheels on my barron so that I could roll wider "training" tires.
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jcsadowski
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #7 - Oct 10th, 2008, 11:25am
 
A Michelen rep told me once that on a very smooth road the high pressure tire is faster.
But if the high pressure tire goes over a small pebble then because of low tire flex the entire bike must lift to go over the pebble using more energy.
The low pressure tire will just flex a little more and go over the pebble without lifting the bicycle.
Note how chip-seal will slow you down.
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Bud_Bent
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #8 - Oct 10th, 2008, 11:33am
 
But at higher speeds, rolling resistance is only part of the equation. Skinny tires are used on racing bikes mainly because of their aerodynamic superiority over wider tires. It's less pronounced on a bike where the rider is lower and therefore more behind the front wheel, but it's still there.
 
I've read a couple of interesting articles that claim that with a 20 inch front wheel, the aerodynamic gain from a narrow tire isn't worth its increased rolling resistance on every day roads, and I guess that might also be true for a bike that has bigger wheels, but a lower rider position, like the X-Stream. With a high racer or upright bike, though, your top speed wouldn't be nearly as fast.  
 
How much difference wider tires make on a long ride, where you're only going to average 14 to 16 mph anyway, is subject to debate. Some randonneurs seem to opt for a bit wider tire while some don't.
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« Last Edit: Oct 10th, 2008, 11:42am by Bud_Bent »  

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jcsadowski
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #9 - Oct 10th, 2008, 11:39am
 
I agree. Tire size cam make a big difference.
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FlyingLaZBoy
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #10 - Oct 10th, 2008, 1:29pm
 
Given the high probability of encountering chipseal on Rando rides in Texas, wider tires are what the Dr. is ordering...  especially since this 300K is not a "race."  I'm putting a 28mm Tellus (Thanks, Ray!) on the rear wheel for tomorrow...
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jcsadowski
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #11 - Oct 10th, 2008, 2:14pm
 
Note there is a difference between wide tires and low pressure tires.
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MrOverdressed
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #12 - Oct 10th, 2008, 2:53pm
 
Quote from FlyingLaZBoy on Oct 10th, 2008, 1:29pm:
Given the high probability of encountering chipseal on Rando rides in Texas, wider tires are what the Dr. is ordering...  especially since this 300K is not a "race."  I'm putting a 28mm Tellus (Thanks, Ray!) on the rear wheel for tomorrow...

 
Flying Lazy Dude,  where did you acquire a tire on such short notice?
 
Terry
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #13 - Oct 10th, 2008, 6:26pm
 
Quote from jcsadowski on Oct 10th, 2008, 2:14pm:
Note there is a difference between wide tires and low pressure tires.

 
But it does get harder to find high pressure tires, when you shop among the wider tires. As long as you can find something rated for 100 psi or so, though, you won't lose much rolling resistance because of lower pressure.
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #14 - Oct 10th, 2008, 7:27pm
 
You guys need to read the link I provided at the beginning of the post, and possibly subscribe to VBQ.  You'll be amazaed at the rolling resistance tests.  Trust me, what you thought you knew about tires, pressure, and rolling resistance will completely change.  
 
You can go into the VBQ web site and read certain articles of past issues.  I have the past, almost 3 years of back issues.  But I don't really want to let them go for too long...
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FlyingLaZBoy
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #15 - Oct 10th, 2008, 9:51pm
 
The 28mm tire didn't fit...  into the FRAME, not onto the wheel...     Sad  there isn't QUITE enough distance between the rear dropout and the back end of the main top frame tube.   It went betweeen the brake pads, but the wheel wouldn't rotate due to  tire contact with the frame tube.  Hope they fixed that on the production version...
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FlyingLaZBoy
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #16 - Oct 13th, 2008, 11:13am
 
Got this email from Randy, responding to my note to him about wanting to put a 28mm on the back wheel of the XStream......
 
<<As a last minute change on the production bikes, I am thinking of setting up the rear wheel with more clearance and possibly going to canti-lever brakes in the back, keeping the road in front. This would offer better stopping power, and I can increase wheel clearance to go up to 1.5 x26, and use both 650 and 26" wheels. A swap out of the fork and you could do a dual 26 version for the tourist.>>  
 
I reponded that I thought this was an excellent combination of ideas.
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« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2008, 11:28am by FlyingLaZBoy »  

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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #17 - Oct 13th, 2008, 11:58am
 
It's a good combination, however, the bike is already in production.  Hmm, wonder if that means that my XS order hasn't even made it's way to the welder yet?  
 
I'm fixin' to call and find out....
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FlyingLaZBoy
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Re: 650C x 28 tire experience?
Reply #18 - Oct 13th, 2008, 1:45pm
 
It's probably worth giving up on Production S/N # 00001 for the tire/wheel/brake mod.   But I reminded Randy that "Sometimes you have to shoot the engineer and get on with production..."   Cheesy
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« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2008, 1:45pm by FlyingLaZBoy »  

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