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Making Garland safer to ride in (Read 5575 times)
Opus the Poet
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Making Garland safer to ride in
Oct 19th, 2009, 6:13pm
 
OK, here's the deal. I was voluntold to come up with a bike plan for Garland. The constraints are there is no budget for major infrastructure projects, there must be no loss of car space, and bikes can't interfere with cars.  Smiley
 
The existing infrastructure is superblocks without connecting secondary through streets, and 40-50 MPH speed limits on the arterials, which means actual speeds are 50-60 MPH if we're lucky, actual speeds are closer to 70 in some places. Smiley
 
The only thing I can come up with is lowering the speed limit to 30 MPH and writing tickets like it's 1990 and this is Lavon not Garland, and ticketing cyclists that ride at night without lights, ride the wrong way, or run red lights (after they fix the traffic signals to change for bikes). And run stop sign stings for everything that rolls, I haven't seen a car stop for a stop sign without another car in the intersection for years. Smiley
 
Given the restraints I have to work with, is there anything else you can think of that I forgot?
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goatstick




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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #1 - Oct 19th, 2009, 6:25pm
 
Quote from Opus the Poet on Oct 19th, 2009, 6:13pm:
OK, here's the deal. I was voluntold to come up with a bike plan for Garland. The constraints are there is no budget for major infrastructure projects, there must be no loss of car space, and bikes can't interfere with cars.
With these constraints, it's most likely DOA. Maybe they need to be reminded that cyclists have the right to travel on public roads and Motor Vehicles don't since they are a 'vehicle operated for hire'.
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Patti
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #2 - Oct 20th, 2009, 9:21am
 
Perhaps, you could propose that they simply put up signs at the city limits announcing : Garland,Texas - We Don't Need No Stinking Bicycles Here
At the very least it gives cyclists fair warning.  Wink
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aikigreg
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #3 - Oct 20th, 2009, 10:05am
 
Stand up and tell them that saying "bikes can't interfere with cars" is tantamount to making bicycles illegal.  
 
Also, please contact GDB and FWBA.  They've got people who can help.  And who knows, if Garland is truthfully considering implementing a plan then maybe they'll listen.
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goatstick




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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #4 - Oct 20th, 2009, 10:48am
 
And in violation of state and us constitutional law if they try to enforce it. I think I remember some requirement for certain cities to implement a bike plan in Tx though I can't remember the conditions (population maybe?) and I haven't found anything about it yet. Making some inquiries... but I suspect Garland might have bumped into this requirement somehow so are trying to meet that by saying "Here's our bike plan - bikes aren't needed" (or wanted). Maybe best to start by finding out what is driving this then take a look at who is generating the list of constraints.
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Bud_Bent
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #5 - Oct 20th, 2009, 11:38am
 
Most Texas cities have the same problems as Garland. Any housing additions built in the last 40 years have streets that don't connect to anything, leaving only the high speed streets that actually go anywhere. My own commute to work gets easier after I reach the really old part of Fort Worth, because most of the side streets there go through.
 
Any solution that has bicycles sharing high speed lanes with autos isn't a good one. Perhaps, designating bike routes, and having the main streets on those routes have a 30 mph speed limit is the best cheap way to go. But, plenty of drivers don't hesitate to drive 30 or 40 mph over the speed limit, so speed limits alone won't get the job done, without adding truly stepped up enforcement along these routes, or speed bumps, traffic circles, or something else to slow traffic down.
 
I've always thought that one of the easiest solutions would be to just construct short bike paths between disconnected neighborhood streets that would allow bicyles to go places without ever having to get on high speed through streets.
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« Last Edit: Oct 20th, 2009, 11:47am by Bud_Bent »  

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goatstick




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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #6 - Oct 20th, 2009, 2:22pm
 
I think 30mph is too slow. It'll be mostly ignored, plus if I can break the speed limit, it's probably too slow. :^) I'd vote for 40-45. Shoot for that 80th percentile... Takes a while to train drivers but if you are persistent, they'll learn. The more bikes out there, the safer it will be. Just make sure TxDOT doesn't destroy the roads in the meantime, as they are doing all over the state.
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FlyingLaZBoy
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #7 - Oct 20th, 2009, 3:54pm
 
If nothing else, stress that HAVING DECENT and CONTINUOUS SIDEWALKS are at least the minimum acceptable situation...  especially in those hilly areas of town that have NO sidewalk in sections, like the southernmost part of Rowlett Road and the easternmost part of Miller Road at Lake Ray Hubbard -- both sections that meet up with the City of Dallas line at the water's edge, with Rowlett just past it.  Or even along the 190 service road...
 
Having greenbelt paths like Richardson does is a start, but somehow encouraging bicycles in general to ride on streets at ~10 mph is not too practical, even when there are three lanes to use.
 
It's a conundrum...
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goatstick




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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #8 - Oct 20th, 2009, 4:35pm
 
I believe there are, at a basic level wrt this conversation, two classes of people riding bicycles, likely separated by speed and motivation: transportational cyclists and for want of a better word, 'hiking' cyclists.
 
We went all through this in Helotes when the crooked developers took over. They stared out with a plan to build hike and bike trails along the creek and on both sides of Hwy 16 with the stated objective of 'getting the cyclists off of Hwy 16'. This attracted people who were not cyclists but said they wanted a place to ride bicycles with their families. At great length, unfortunately, I had to show the crooked developer city council members the reasons why transportational cyclists would not be using the 'hike and bike' trails and that it was illegal to try to force cyclists off of the roads. I basically did get the 'hike and bike' advocates to rename the trails to 'nature' trails and remove the ones that were to run parallel to the highway to help with the issue somewhat. For good or bad, the crooked developers have yet to do anything with the idea. Things were still great for cycling until they tore up old town and TxDOT destroyed Hwy 16. So yes, they did figure out a way to get almost all cyclists off of Hwy 16... All that are left are us commuters who have to share the lanes with 80+mph drivers around blind curves, etc.
 
If you really want to try to improve things, maybe do a little research on traffic calming and car-lite communities. The more you try to separate motor vehicles, the worse things in general get. There are several books that document the research performed in this area.
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Opus the Poet
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #9 - Oct 20th, 2009, 5:31pm
 
Yeah, I somewhat mis-stated the objectives. They want to get more bikes without reducing the number of cars, and they don't have any budget to do that. The goals are to increase bike use without reducing the growth of car use, but the growth of car use is budgeted Smiley
 
First problem is the superblocks and the "40"MPH streets that are actually 50-60 because there aren't enough cops to write the number of tickets needed to make them actually do 40 MPH.
 
As Paul pointed out most streets in Garland lack sidewalks, and many that do have sidewalks don't have curb cuts. This eliminates sidewalk riding which endangers pedestrians, but it also eliminates sidewalk riding period. I have seen a few people riding on the sidewalks but they are riding BSOs with dual suspension to hop the curbs. I don't know what they do when the sidewalks stop, but I assume that they're the same people I see riding the wrong way on the street. Smiley
 
So, how do you do it? Like I posted earlier, the only way I can see to do it is reduce the speed limits to a level that bikes can live with cars, the cars will still be going by at one every 2 seconds regardless of the speed limit if they're using a legal amount of separation, and the occupants can actually see the stores on the sides of the streets way back behind those huge parking lots and maybe stop and shop in one of them. There has been lots of study done on the relationship between speed limits and retail, with retail going up as speeds come down.
 
I have been looking at other methods of calming traffic, but the deal-breaker with all of them is they require modifications to the infrastructure, and we come right back to "no budget". And to be perfectly honest the preferred method of traffic calming in TX is installing 4-way stops at every corner in the area you want calmed. Stop signs are death to cycling on those routes.
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AustinSkater






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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #10 - Oct 20th, 2009, 5:36pm
 
Quote from goatstick on Oct 20th, 2009, 4:35pm:
The more you try to separate motor vehicles, the worse things in general get. There are several books that document the research performed in this area.

 
That may be true here, but it not the truth in Europe.  In Holland almost every major road has a bicycle path running next to it.  It's a culture thing.
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goatstick




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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #11 - Oct 20th, 2009, 6:19pm
 
Even in the Netherlands there is a lot of controversy regarding the separation and thus a big push towards the use of traffic calming instead. Note that traffic calming was started there... Also take a look at the type and use of bicycles there. They are far more pedestrian in use.
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« Last Edit: Oct 20th, 2009, 6:23pm by goatstick »  

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Bud_Bent
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #12 - Oct 20th, 2009, 7:43pm
 
Europe uses a lot of traffic circles to slow traffic. As I mentioned earlier, speed bumps work, too. Not the terrible, tall, curb-looking speed bumps, but wide, gentle speed bumps that are enough to discourage an auto from doing more than 30 mph, and don't bother a bike much at all. That is what is on the older streets I ride to work in Fort Worth. Unlike newer neighborhoods, those residential streets actually connect to other streets, so something had to be done to keep autos from driving 60 mph on them, and speed bumps is what the city did. They work very well. No one zooms past me too fast on those streets.
 
A 40 mph speed limit is too much for me. If you want to ride your bicycle 40 mph, get on the high speed roads. Designated bike routes should have a slower speed limit. And the only two things keeping 30 mph electric commute vehicles from becoming popular is their high price, and the fact that people can't use them in high speed traffic. The price will come down as technology improves and demand increases, but just like bicycles, they need a low speed route to get somewhere, and will never become major players until low speed routes happen.
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« Last Edit: Oct 20th, 2009, 7:58pm by Bud_Bent »  

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Kwijybow
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #13 - Oct 20th, 2009, 7:55pm
 
Oh yeah, traffic calming, make the f'in cars useless, I'm all for it.  I have a lot of anger at cars at the moment.
 
However, until the true costs of driving and fossil fuel usage are actually felt by the public I don't expect much to change.
 
Take Care,
Nelson.
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Bud_Bent
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #14 - Oct 20th, 2009, 8:04pm
 
Quote from Kwijybow on Oct 20th, 2009, 7:55pm:
Oh yeah, traffic calming, make the f'in cars useless, I'm all for it.  I have a lot of anger at cars at the moment.

However, until the true costs of driving and fossil fuel usage are actually felt by the public I don't expect much to change.

Take Care,
Nelson.

 
I expect you're right. I've always figured that $12.00 a gallon is the number we need to see to change everyone's lifestyle.  
 
And I would expect that the road system would eventually be computer controlled. The computers in autos would only allow the auto to do 30 mph unless it's on a computer designated high speed road. But that's a few years down the road, too.
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