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Making Garland safer to ride in (Read 5579 times)
aikigreg
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #30 - Oct 21st, 2009, 8:09pm
 
Man, Bud is sure right about the lack of thoroughfares. I just mapped a route from my house to his (or thereabouts) and look how far I ahve to go out of my way to avoid Bryant Irvin road even though there should be 3 perfectly good neighborhoods to bike through:
 
http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/360602
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Bud_Bent
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #31 - Oct 21st, 2009, 9:08pm
 
Quote from aikigreg on Oct 21st, 2009, 8:09pm:
Man, Bud is sure right about the lack of thoroughfares. I just mapped a route from my house to his (or thereabouts) and look how far I ahve to go out of my way to avoid Bryant Irvin road even though there should be 3 perfectly good neighborhoods to bike through:

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/360602

 
Yeah, it's been completely ridiculous with both my new neighborhood and my old one. Google doesn't show most of the streets in my new neighborhood (they're too new), but you have to ride almost 2 miles to get 1/4 mile east of my house. My old neighborhood was just as bad if you wanted to ride north. You had to do a big circle around, south first, then east or west.  
 
Have you ridden Lakeside Drive and Dirks Road on your bikely route? They're awful. Two lane with lots of traffic, and it's a curving monstrous hill on Lakeside Drive with no shoulder and traffic trying to get around you. You can get to Bellaire Drive via Trinity Trail, can't you? I think that would be better.
 
Hey, I forgot to tell you, I did a 100 mile loop Saturday that took me through Godley. The route I took was pretty good, if you ever want to drive to my house, then commute to work from here. The only iffy part was a low water crossing on Godley Ave that would NOT work on a day like today. You can see the route here.
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« Last Edit: Oct 21st, 2009, 9:13pm by Bud_Bent »  

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aikigreg
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #32 - Oct 21st, 2009, 10:12pm
 
That's a pretty good route, and it stays off of 1187, 2331, and 917 - all of which are horrible.   I'd like to come try that sometime.  I'll have to play with it and see how many miles it is to Godley, but I bet it's not more than 20.
 
As for Lakeside and Dirks, no I've never even driven them, I just figured traffic that far south would have to be light.  Bellaire to is fine, but I still end up at Bryant Irvin/Dirks.  I'm sure there's another way to go though - I was just playing with it a bit tonight.
 
Addendum:  21.7 miles, and I know those roads are pretty lightly traveled.  Makes it conceivable to commute a day or two a week.  You wouldn't mind me parking across from your house?
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« Last Edit: Oct 21st, 2009, 10:32pm by aikigreg »  

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Bud_Bent
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #33 - Oct 22nd, 2009, 7:06am
 
Quote from aikigreg on Oct 21st, 2009, 10:12pm:
That's a pretty good route, and it stays off of 1187, 2331, and 917 - all of which are horrible.   I'd like to come try that sometime.  I'll have to play with it and see how many miles it is to Godley, but I bet it's not more than 20.

As for Lakeside and Dirks, no I've never even driven them, I just figured traffic that far south would have to be light.  Bellaire to is fine, but I still end up at Bryant Irvin/Dirks.  I'm sure there's another way to go though - I was just playing with it a bit tonight.

Addendum:  21.7 miles, and I know those roads are pretty lightly traveled.  Makes it conceivable to commute a day or two a week.  You wouldn't mind me parking across from your house?

 
Sure, you're welcome to park at my place.
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Opus the Poet
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #34 - Oct 22nd, 2009, 4:49pm
 
I went to the BPAC public meeting yesterday, and what I found out was appalling. Garland is just leaving millions of dollars we could spend on bike-ped infrastructure sitting on the table for others to get. The 2 guys that are supposed to be talking to people about this have never showed up for a meeting. I sent them an e-mail about the subject and still haven't gotten a response. The supposition at this point is 1. they're lazy bums, or 2. they're car-heads stuck in the 1960s version of urban planning and don't know/care about other modes of transportation Smiley
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johnnybent
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #35 - Oct 22nd, 2009, 8:34pm
 
Can you give the titles, departments and names of the two responible.
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larry




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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #36 - Oct 22nd, 2009, 10:12pm
 
I was in Vancouver several weeks ago and was struck by the generous bike lanes on major streets. Saw the same thing in Beijing when I worked in Asia around 2000. In the Chinese case it is a legacy of their earlier position as a developing country. They HAD to have bike lanes to accomodate the number of cyclists! VAncouver is different. They did it proactively to create a better place for non-motorized vehicles to be used. No matter what you think of Canadian politics, I appreciate their attention to this sort of thing. The idea of opening bike paths between neighborhoods to create low cost avenues for bikes on less-heavily-used streets is attractive. There is simply no safe way for a cyclist to take his/her legal space on a road with vehicles going 45-50 mph at rush hour. In those cases it won't matter who is right and legal. The cyclist will still be the one hospitalized or in the morgue. I have been opting for sidewalks and just remembering to give right of way to pedestrians when I encounter them.
 
The distinction between biking for recreation and for transportation is an important one. It is the latter that requires the most dedicated adjustment of street infrastructure, and also will enable the greater reduction of air pollution.
 
Guess we need to keep our little lights shining on this one.... Smiley
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richardr




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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #37 - Oct 22nd, 2009, 10:34pm
 
Opus,
I lived in north Garland for a year and a half and comuted by bike almost every day.  There are a couple of roads I rode daily that are about 1 1/2 lanes wide on each side and could be marked with bike lanes with little impact to the car traffic.  Colins is a good east-west road from Shiloh into Richardson.  In the north-south direction there is Galaxy.  These aren't much, but they would be a start.
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goatstick




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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #38 - Oct 23rd, 2009, 12:21am
 
Quote from larry on Oct 22nd, 2009, 10:12pm:
.. There is simply no safe way for a cyclist to take his/her legal space on a road with vehicles going 45-50 mph at rush hour.
You guys... I never would have thought I was superhuman :^)
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evblazer
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #39 - Oct 23rd, 2009, 7:50am
 
Quote from goatstick on Oct 23rd, 2009, 12:21am:
Quote from larry on Oct 22nd, 2009, 10:12pm:
.. There is simply no safe way for a cyclist to take his/her legal space on a road with vehicles going 45-50 mph at rush hour.
You guys... I never would have thought I was superhuman :^)

Well my wife did tell me to be super safe when I left the house this morning so welcome to the club  Cheesy
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Mark Hastings
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FlyingLaZBoy
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #40 - Oct 23rd, 2009, 8:10am
 
Opus, just copy and print out this entire thread, and hand it to the people in Garland....  Then they'll get an inkling as to just how FREAKING COMPLICATED the whole issue is....
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goatstick




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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #41 - Oct 23rd, 2009, 8:30am
 
The easiest thing to do is to simply have wide, ride-able shoulders on roads with a shoulder stripe. This benefits pretty much everyone, not just motor vehicles and bicycles, is ****far**** easier to sell to an anti-bike crowd and is quite safe, compared to alternatives. If you mark them as bike lanes, they just get more dangerous. No special 'bike facilities'. No huge 'bike budget'. This handles anything from 30mph traffic to 70+mph traffic. Make sure the shoulders are unobstructed, don't have markers or curbs that bulb-out and right-turn lanes are wide enough for cars to pass you on the right if you want to stop on the far left side of the right-turn lane at intersections.  
 
This works in town, in traffic, rural roads and highways. You will have less trouble with traffic doing this that any other alternative.
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evblazer
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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #42 - Oct 23rd, 2009, 9:12am
 
"The easiest thing to do is to simply have wide, ride-able shoulders on roads with a shoulder stripe. "
ew.. I'd rather have a wide outer lanes minus the stripe. Put the shoulder stripe in there and all that happens is all the debris piles up in the shoulder/bike lane if it isn' there occasionaly a car/truck will go a little closer to the curb and clear it out.  I think that should about round out all the different options.. bike lanes/improved shoulders, bike paths, sidewalks, wide outer lanes, vehicular cycling, interconnected subdivisions, just stay on the trainer/spin class... Smiley
 
Problem if the lanes aren't already wide enough there won't be any space for a shoulder of any kind unless you count some of those 18" ones I've seen some places. "get in the bike lane!" which is normally heard as "nnn ergh bain" Smiley
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« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2009, 9:18am by evblazer »  

Mark Hastings
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goatstick




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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #43 - Oct 23rd, 2009, 9:22am
 
Widening the roadway is an issue, but as I mentioned, it benefits pretty much everyone. As to 'get in the bike lane', here's what my daughter learned on the trip:
 
----------------
Leaving the gas station, we had to negotiate traffic, which in this area at this time of day was over 70% SUVs, trucks, vans or minivans (Suburbia, go figure).  Almost our entire route along the north side of Gainesville had marked, labeled bike lanes.  Of course, this proved to be more dangerous and labor-intensive than riding a regular shoulder would have been.
 
Drivers shut off part of their brain around bike lanes for some reason.  It’s as if they imagine a wall between their lane and the bike lane – as long as they don’t cross the line, they can get as close to that wall (and your bike) as they like, going as fast as they want.  In their mind, they set you in the bike lane and never expect that you would have to leave that lane for any reason.  It’s the “Bike Lane”; why would your bike need to be anywhere else?  They don’t consider that you might need to cross their lane to make a left turn, or move into their lane to avoid the all-to-common debris that accumulates in bike lanes or even to dodge potholes or manhole covers.  When a vehicle encounters a big tree branch or a giant pothole in their lane, it’s common to change lanes to avoid the obstruction, but drivers find it unacceptable that bikes might need to do something similar.
-----------------
 
What was the difference between Gainsville's bike lanes and a wide shoulder?  Signs and markings stating it was a bike lane. Oh, and debris. Where there were no bike lane markings, the shoulder was free of debris and obstructions.
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« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2009, 9:29am by goatstick »  

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larry




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Re: Making Garland safer to ride in
Reply #44 - Oct 23rd, 2009, 10:14am
 
"The easiest thing to do is to simply have wide, ride-able shoulders on roads with a shoulder stripe. This benefits pretty much everyone, not just motor vehicles and bicycles, is ****far**** easier to sell to an anti-bike crowd and is quite safe"
 
I yield to the voices of experience!  Smiley The roads I have to ride on have no shoulder whatsoever. Just the regular sized lanes with honking traffic wanting to go way faster than I can pedal! I think any scenario that gives us a paved space to ride on that outside edge would be great. May all you superhumans ride safely to and fro. Smiley
 
That still costs money which municipalities either don't have or are unwilling to spend on these sorts of projects. Incentives will need to come from state or national level to get this going, and as we have seen, even with incentives there often is not much motivation for change.  Smiley As our spouses tell us, we just have to be careful!
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