More later, but for now, to quote Bones Mccoy:
 
"He's dead, Jim!"

Like our Carbon Aero friend Beertruck told me on a Briar Oaks ride earlier this year ,wind makes you stronger ,chip-seal makes you meaner. Well,I feel both after today's 200k ride(not so much chip seal).

Quote from Strada177 on Apr 12^th, 2008, 11:13pm:

 
 
"Exahustion in the bedroom"???   Way to go, STEVE!!!!    

You and all this easiest 200k stuff Personally it was my hardest 200k. ok fine it was my only 200k and only ride over 75 miles in over a decade and actually my only group ride ever.
Y'all made it very easy on me and provided alot of support and encouragement. I probably would have been worse off turning back early by myself then sticking with everyone so thanks for taking a casual pace. I'm glad I didn't wait for italy to roll around with the looped course since it would have been pretty easy to turn off after the first lap.
 
As for talking there was some points here and there where my HR was pretty high and I couldn't really talk and breath. Overall though it is probably due to the fact that I'm pretty much a pretty quiet person and keep to myself. Outside of work, till yesterday, I'm pretty sure beside a hello or thank you I haven't talked to anyone since I moved here 4 years ago. Even at work I can go weeks without saying more then hello to someone since everyone I know is gone for one reason or another.
 
I think the only lasting pain I have is a 1" band just above my knee where my shorts must have slid up or rubbed off the sun screen. So now on my legs I have my heavy tan a dark dark red band and then pure white. I think I'm going to pass on that mountain climbing ride y'all are going on. With gear I easily max out the weight capacity of the giro 26 since I've gained like 15 lbs since I got it?? So hills take alot to ride and I have pretty weak everything so until I drop some weight and don't suck so bad up hills I'll be pretty much a flatlander for longer rides.
 

Quote from evblazer on Apr 13^th, 2008, 4:01pm:

 
Well, hanging out will us will certainly fix that!  We're all gabbers.

Nelson ,thanks for navigating. We all had cue sheets. That's not fair to ask you to navigate for all of us. I kinda looked at mine periodically. I did navigate the last 20 miles or so(especially during those last few miles thru the neighborhood when doubting Ray said "this isn't the way we came " & I said according to the cue sheet this is how we should be going. And the cue sheet was correct).  
 
Now I know why the randonneurs call Ray "wrong way ray". Sorry Ray, just messin' with you. Congrats on the R-12 award...AGAIN!

Is it just my eyesight, or does Mark have on one black sock and one white sock? Do you have another pair just like that one at home, Mark?
 

Bud(Eagle eyes) ,if you noticed EV-Blazers brace ,I hope you noticed Greg & I chocking down a "Bud" in your honor? For a beer snobs such as Greg & myself ,that was the ultimate sacrifice(OK, it wasn't horrible ,but I've had a lot better beers).
 
I wonder if RUSA would approve(drinking & riding)? What happens on a ride ,stays on a ride!

You mean the 3 Stooges?!! Control #3 was handing out Bacchetta jersey's only if you agreed to drink a tall boy.

Quote from FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 15^th, 2008, 4:06pm:

 
Paul ,I was talking with Ray/Nelson during the permanent ,the TTTT's for '08 does NOT look good. Ray/Nelson could give you more details.  I would not expect to see this event happen unless some changes quickly. Very sad news indeed.
 
 
The Killer "B's" are spreading like a virus.

I hadn't thought about that, Ray - interesting observation!  I shared the beer photo with the Bacchetta forum - I hope you don't mind, Nelson, but it was too great to pass up with the 3 B jerseys flying!

Hi Guys,
 
  sorry for a public post but this seems the best way to get in touch with the affected riders quickest.
It seems that due to a misunderstanding on my part with Bill Fox, the owner of the GP2CLE route that Greg's, Steve's, Peggy's and Mark's ride results a not being validated.  I was operating under the method with which I'm familiar (that a waiver signed the morning off was sufficient) but it seems that Bill requires a hard copy of the waiver from all participants prior to allowing you to ride on one of his routes.  Here in lies the problem.  Bill refused to validate the ride, but he did copy the permanents coordinator Edward Robinson on the email notification to me of this fact, and myself and Ray have been in discussion with him about the situation.  It seems however that without a formal appeal by you the riders affected that Edward cannot make a decision.  So I was trying to sheild you guys from this, but I now need you if you so desire to write an email to Edward regarding your desire for an appeal.
 
Here is a copy of the last email from Edward which contains his contact information:
 
 
Gentlemen -
 
  First, thank you for your courtesy as we have been discussing the results of this ride.  I know each of you have serious concerns regarding the results validation.
 
  At this point, however, any decision concerning the results would be premature because I have not received a notice of appeal from any rider whose validation was declined by Bill.  It is not clear to me whether those riders even have been informed that their results were rejected.
 
  Between Bill and Nelson I have the following contact information (only) regarding the remaining riders:
 
Peggy Petty - RUSA #4613
Steve Petty - RUSA #4612 nfwgonzo@yahoo.com
Mark Hastings - No RUSA number
Greg Gross - RUSA #4557, aikigreg@hotmail.com
 
  That alone is of concern to me, as there should be an entry form for each rider with the appropriate contact information.
 
  Bill, Nelson -- I located additional contact information for Peggy and Steve Petty, and for Greg Gross, in RUSA's membership records, but of course none is yet available for Mark Hastings (a new applicant).  I am going to ask that one or the other of you please contact these four riders to let them know the outcome of the ride, and that they have the option of appealing the result.  Please decide between the two of you who will take care of this.  If the affected riders would like to appeal, they should do so in writing -- an e-mail to me is fine.  Having contacted them, please confirm to me that they were notified, and when.
 
Greg Gross:        817-492-9438
Steve Petty:        972-335-5730
Peggy Petty:      972-335-5730, mrsstrada@yahoo.com
 
  Unless I receive a notice of appeal from one of the riders whose results were declined, I will have to consider this closed.
 
  In the meantime, I will get back to you, Ray, regarding your question about waivers, and to you, Nelson, regarding your routes.
 
  Regards,
 
- Edward
 
Edward Robinson
Permanents Coordinator
Randonneurs USA
956.276.9171
rusapermanents@gmail.com
 
Explore RUSA Permanents
 
 
My apologies on all this,  I seriously doubt I'll be hosting anymore rides, as this is sucking the joy out of riding my bike in a big way.
 
Take Care,
Nelson.

What should I tell Bill, other than that "i appeal!"?  I mean, we have receipt to prove we rode the sucker, as well as photo documentation outside of some of the controls.

Actually I really don't recommend talking with Bill at all, I'd just email Edward and let him know you would in fact like to appeal for your result to be validated.  By the way I did let Bill know that the roads were seriously deteriorated from the gas well traffic.
 
Take Care,
Nelson.

Hi Steve,
 
  Ray brought up the issue of waiver uniformity with Edward, and so hopefully this will help codify that so that this kind of thing will not happen to someone else.  I can attest for a fact that it will not happen to me again, as this is about the last straw with me and RUSA legalism, I ride my bike for fun and recreation when not riding for transportation purposes.  I just wish it had only affected me, and not you folks.  For that I sincerely apologize.
 
Take Care,
Nelson.

Quote from Kwijybow on Apr 21^st, 2008, 3:52pm:

 
 
No need to apologize.  Regardless of their head-up-their-butt ego trip, I had a great ride with my friends.

Everyone, I feel absolutely terrible.  Both Nelson and I have sent multiple e-mails to both Bill and Edward this week.  Most of all, I'm so sorry for Mark, as this is not the way 99% of the RUSA events are run.  
 
Here is the issue my friends. A signed RUSA waiver provides insurance for the riders.  There is some type of legal stipulation that if there is a single rider who is not a RUSA membeer, then none of the riders completion will be validated, and there are insurance ramifications to RUSA.  I believe that some time last year that Bill allowed a group to ride, and trusted the route sponsor (like Nelson for our ride) to validate each rider's RUSA membership.  Because one of the riders wasn't a member, it held up validation for months, and sparked a lot of (shall I say) interesting bantering on the LSR forum.  
 
My suggestion is that each of you send a appeal e-mail to Edward, requesting that your ride be validated.
 
note to Mark.  One of the benefits of having a ride validated is that you earn mileage awards at the end of the year as well as the coveret R12.
 

I love you guys, and hope that you can accept my apologies as I accept equal responsibility.

See that is what you get for being nice to the new guy   Hopefully Rays R12, Gregs 200k credit for RAAM and everyone elses goes through ok.
 
I sent a brief nice note to edward appealing the decision on my ride. I did mention to edward that if my pending membership was a problem then I was fine with that and I plan on being out there again regardless.
 
It was my first ride ever ride with anyone except my wife over tens of thousands of miles going all the way back to when I was oh 15 or so. It was my first century in over a decade and my first 200k whether they count it or not. I got to meet all you nice folks which makes it a little easier going to any future events/rides so it was well worth it to me.

I'll be interested in knowing how this plays out for those that rode.  I've just about got things tightened up around the house & work is starting to slow down to where I can participate in some of these 200K's.  I've a question or two though.  Do I have to have to be a RUSA member to do these?  I mean, I'd like to check it out a couple of times at least before deciding on spending $ to join.  I'll sign a waiver if needed, I've got insurance if that is of a concern.  Whens the next 200K?  DJ

DJ - we'd love for you to join us.  I suggest you contact Dan Driscoll. Dan is the local area RBA (Regional Brevet Administrator) and an really great guy, and excellent advocate for everything cycling. To get answers to all you questions, Call Dan at (817) 460-5734
 
The link is the main web site for Lone Star Randonneurs (LSR)
http://lonestarrandon.tripod.com/
 
note to those of us who rode GP2CLE.  I you have the opportunity to e-mail Edward again, mention the fact that you were not told that a waiver must be signed in advance.  You can't be held responsible for something you did't know.  I believe that RUSA rules state that the ride sponsor must obtain waiver signatures from each rider prior to the start of the ride.  Bill and a few others created posts earlier this year requiring advange waivers.  But this is up to interpretation.  BOTTOM LINE, TELL EDWARD THAT SINCE THE RULES DON'T REQUIRE YOU TO SIGN THE WAIVER AND SUBMIT IT TO THE ROUTE OWNER PRIOR TO THE START OF THE RIDE, THEN YOU SHOULD BE GIVEN CREDIT, PERIOD.[color=#cc0000][/color]

From what I understand DJ you must be a RUSA member to participate (for insurance purposes.)  Regarding our ride, the method of pre-ride morning waiver signing has been sufficient for every permanent I've done up to this point.  I would have to point out to Edward that I in fact have not completed *ANY* permanents correctly if he upholds Bill's position completely.  However I guess he could rule that it is completely up to the owner, and we're screwed, except that as far as I can tell Bill never mentioned it anywhere but in the post Ray mentions to the LSR board, which I never read until today searching for it.  I must say I don't read all those posts, especially after the bickering between Mark and Other's started last year.  I reviewed the emails I received from Bill and they mention nothing about it, so I have no reason to think I just missed it.
 
Take Care,
Nelson.

I appreciate all the info provided thus far.  Seems to be an issue to some about receiving credit for doing a 200K or longer ride and being a member of RUSA.  It's kind of stupid to me, to make one pay to join, prior to that one having the benefit of trying it out to see if it fits.  I don't care about credit for the ride if I'm simply exploring this  type of event to see if it's for me.  I just wanna do a couple with y'all and see how I do.  I'm more than willing to join RUSA if my performance measures up to my & y'alls collective scrutiny and that I'm not a hindrance to anyone else's ride.  DJ      

Come join us, DJ.  You'll have a blast.  The LSR gang is cool, with 2 notable exceptions.  Apparently Bill Fox has just gotten a Napoleonic Complex.
 
here is my current draft reply.  Tell me if I've left anything out:
 
We have a recumbent club that has an online forum.  I had been signed up for a pay ride when Ray Torrey and Nelson Ralls posted a message that they were doing the permanent.  I mentioned that if I could arrange it, and if my baseball coaching didn't keep me out until 2am, I'd love to do the ride, but wouldn't know until last minute.  Nelson said he'd get copies of everything for me so I could ride.  
 
I never thought it'd be an issue since I've just showed up to brevets and populaires unannounced and rode before.  I had no idea there was any difference in protocol.  Nor any reason to expect so, since the permanent owner knew the route was being ridden that day.  
 
It is unfair for each member to have to jump through different hoops for different rides.  Same rules should apply.  As I understand it, RUSA rules state that waivers must be signed prior to the ride and turned in to the ride leader, and that's what all of us have done.  I've talked to other members and they've never had to do anything different from what we've done, and they've all been given credit.  I can't even find any mention of requirements that everything must be proved in advance.  Here are the links to the texas permanents site as well as the waiver.  I can find no place where it specifically states that one must have the waiver signed and approved in advnace.
 
http://www.texaspermanents.org/route.php?rusa_number=128
 
http://www.texaspermanents.org/files/waiver/GP2CLE%20waiver.pdf

Greg ,I like it. I basically said the same thing in my e-mail to Edward. I was never told that we had to have a hard copy waiver signed & returned to the route owner before the ride.
 
And I also mentioned the lack of uniformity between the route owners on his issue. Essential ,we're being penalized for their lack of consistency on the waiver issue. Fix this & we wouldn't be discussing this right now ,especially when this issue occurred last year.

I found this older post of LSR's forum(dated Jan 3,2008) from Bill Fox regarding this subject.
 
 
 
Subject: Guidelines for the New Year on my Permanents
 
There's been quite a flurry of discussion lately on the RUSA list for
Permanent owners and RBAs regarding waivers and liability.  With the
start of the New Year and the recent introduction of Jorge's most
excellent Texas Permanent Clearinghouse Website (http://colourprep.com/
cycling/perms/index.php), I thought the time was right to clearly
communicate my expectations for those wishing to participate in the
Permanents I manage.
 
#1 - All participants must be a current RUSA member.  I will not
accept requests from those with "pending" memberships.  My routes are
available all year, so there's plenty of time to ride them once you
have (or re-activate) your membership.  If you ride with a group, it
is in your interest to ensure everyone has a current RUSA number.
Should I happen to discover that a non-RUSA member rode with the
group, I will disqualify the entire group.
 
#2 - I will be STRICTLY following RUSA's Rules for Riders and RUSA's
Rules for Permanent Riders. It is my understanding that RUSA currently
only requires one receipt per group as proof of passage. If you arrive
at a control with a group and do NOT get a receipt, you must indicate
on your card who will have the receipt for that control.  If you
arrive solo at a control and lose that receipt, consider it training
mileage.  Also, please note that I must receive completed Permanent
cards within 10 days of completion.
 
#3 - I will now require having a physical waiver in hand from each
rider BEFORE the start of the ride.  Waivers for all my routes are
available at the Texas Permanents Website, as well as the Files
section (http://groups.google.com/group/Talk2LSR/files) of this
Group.  I am also quite happy to send one upon request.  There were
too many times last year when the waiver for the group was not
returned promptly, risking the validation for everyone.
 
#4 - I will assess the $5 ride fee UNLESS you agree to the following:
     a.  You will be responsible for printing the cue sheet and
control card I send you.
     b.  You include a self addressed, stamped envelope so that I can
promptly return your validated card.
 
I fully expect there will be some that find the above expectations
unduly harsh, restrictive, and unfair.  Believe it or not, I'm
somewhat sympathetic to that viewpoint.  However, as the region that
has the most Permanent participation in RUSA (in 2007, of the ~1500
Permanents Results reported to RUSA, LSR rode ~425, nearly 4 times as
many as any other club), I think it is incumbent upon us to set a
standard that is above reproach and can deliver results that can
withstand the closest scrutiny.
 
I'm happy to address any questions or concerns.   Please know that my
intent is not to make it difficult to ride one of my permanents, but
to guarantee the validity of it once you finish.
 
Bill

Nelson , now that's what I call a smoking gun. I understand Edward Robinson is an attorney. Let's put that e-mail that you posted in context he could understand.
 
 
Nelson says in court..."Mr Counselor .,let me present Exhibit "A"(his e-mail to Bill Fox) !!   The judge's gavel slams down "Case closed"! "The state awards Mr. Ralls ,etal $1 million in compensatory damages"(sorry ,I got carried away with the last paragraph).

Yes. Thanks to  Nelson & Ray for their help in this matter.  I want to say a lot more about the route owner ,but why bother? I just won't ride his routes. This is water under the bridge.