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rbent Forum
https://rbentonline.org/YaBB.pl General Category >> rbent Lobby >> 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? https://rbentonline.org/YaBB.pl?num=1470079623 Message started by FlyingLaZBoy on Aug 1st, 2016, 2:27pm |
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Title: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Aug 1st, 2016, 2:27pm A bit of introspection, if I may... and a request for opinions: Back before discovering recumbents, I used to pedal your typical $150 Target MTB around the neighborhood and WRLake, but never doing "road" or "club" riding for any significant distances... and never crashed or broke anything. Then I took the plunge into 'bents with an EZ-1 in early 2005, joined GDB, helped resurrect RBENT, and did over 3000 miles that first year, and ride 3000-5000 miles per year ever since, creating some GREAT cycling memories... not the least of which was getting to know the folks at RANS, thanks mostly to Greg Gross. However, over those years, I've also "hit the concrete" several times on rides -- usually with the 'help' of wet/slick surfaces, and a couple of times due to tire-swallowing cracks -- but have never been significantly injured or broken anything, and none of them was at high speed or involved any other riders. We've also toppled the Seavo tandem a couple of times at 0mph, while we learned what NOT to do while turning it around... which made me feel bad, because my job as Captain is to not let the stoker get hurt. Terrie jammed her shoulder a bit, but again, nothing broken. But, it's let her participate in rides she wouldn't otherwise have been able to do. And of course, I've come to enjoy riding at 20-30mph, pushing my physical limits, participating in the TTTT, fast club rides, the GDB time trial, etc., and am honestly proud to be considered a "strong rider" among my friends -- and love my Xstream. HOWEVER, we have all had the occasional "close call" where we barely avoid a crack, or catch the front/back wheel slipping out and correct for it quickly, narrowly avoiding going down. And we all know DF riders who crash and break collarbones, faces, etc. from falling from a greater height... and I've heard tales of broken collarbones resulting in a $30,000+ hospital bill, albeit mostly covered by insurance (or NOT). And this past weekend, I read Dennis Tresenreiter's post about he and his wife crashing on their tandem, due to HITTING A CAT WITH THE BACK WHEEL, with both of them in the hospital with broken ribs, pelvis, and more... jeez.... [smiley=injured.gif] .... ... ... So, being in my upper 50s, I'm admittedly starting to think to myself, " I don't need the hassle and expense of a crash that breaks something, even if it's my fault" " Is it time to switch to a trike, to make a significant dent in the probability of breaking something in a future 2-wheel crash?" " Do we sell the Seavo, so Terrie doesn't lose 3-6 months of choral conducting work due to a broken arm/collarbone, because of a crash that is out of my control?" " Will I be able to do the club/social rides I'm used to doing? Will I be "ostracized'?" Additionally, tracking 3 wheels through road surface cracks is 3X the challenge... I've ridden the Tour II on the Sunday Roll a few times, and it's kind of like playing a video game. Then I think, "Will selling the other bikes bring enough to buy the trike I would want?" "Am I 'wimping out'??" "How the hell can I keep up with SquareCorners if I switch?" [smiley=rolleyes.gif], and "Yes, I'll probably tip the darned thing, anyway...." [smiley=wink.gif] SO -- what do the great washed/unwashed of RBENT say? Give me some feedback, positive or negative, pro-2-wheel or against, or even why you switched to 3 wheels (or didn't!)... [smiley=cheers.gif] [smiley=chinscratch.gif] [smiley=dankk2.gif] Best, Paul |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by MrWizard on Aug 1st, 2016, 3:59pm For speed, safety and security, go velomobile [smiley=grin.gif] Meanwhile, I have had this conversation a lot with people, having lots and lots of time on 2 and 3 wheeled (and even a single wheel for a short time) and it all boils down to a simple philosophical question only you can answer .. are you having fun? There are medical reasons for choosing a trike (or a velo) over a 2 wheeled recumbent, and of course there are medical reasons that a recumbent is a better choice than an upright. Do you face social osterization, yes. But you've already been through that when you started going 'bent . If you climb hills slower than them, its because you are on a recumbent, not because you are fat, slow or carry woolly beard. . If you climb hills faster than them, its because you are on a recumbent and have some kind of magical advantage .. In short its going to happen no matter what you ride, unless its a 1962 Schwinn Paramount, and then its just cool. But back to the issue at hand. "Are you having fun?" If having fun means you get out and ride, have a good time, and enjoy the company of others, you'll find more 3 wheelers out there now than 2 when it comes to 'bents being sold. If having fun means taking podium at the TTTT while taking all the Strava KOMs along the way .. well, it would be a little harder on a trike and you might be better off on a 7 pound stick bike .. I didn't get much of a choice, medically I'm not even supposed to be riding a bike. If i listened to the well meaning medical community I'd be hiding in a padded room on the fear that if I get into an accident my chances of something minor becoming something major are dramatically increased .. The compromise was, at first, a trike. Not their compromise, mine .. I needed to get back out and I needed to find a way to minimize the risk .. So I had a legitimate excuse(?) to go 3 wheels. Now that I've been 3 wheels I find it would be harder to go back. I still ride my P38s and my 5600 stick bike on occasion (sssh! don't tell my doctor) But those have become special purpose vehicles relegated to just specific things at specific times. But for me they are not as fun .. They are there for a purpose. For fun, I return to 3 wheels. I have to think less about riding, and do more riding. Thats what I tell people who ask me .. I'm comfortable, I'm reasonably fast, I can stop and start when I want. I don't have to worry about serious injury, and --- I'm having fun That said, how do you know if you are having fun? As a side note, I've got a 700 thats short-term lend-able if you want to see how much subjugation your friends put you through commit; so far its 2 for 2 of people that rode it buying a trike |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by catroad254 on Aug 1st, 2016, 6:24pm The only thing to fear is fear itself. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Dennis on Aug 1st, 2016, 7:01pm I switched from the vision r-54 to the catrike road. I still feel slow, but I think I was slowing even before the r-54 broke. It's more the rider not getting enough riding time in than the bike/trike choice. Even on days I misjudge my range and I'm going 5mph up a hill, I'm still pedalling not walking. I've made the same mistake on the vision and didn't realize it before I collapsed due to lack of momentum combined with fatigued manuvering. The ability to stop at stop signs (or anywhere else needed) without concern for getting out of the clips is a nicer than I expected. I suspect the first thing I'll do if I get on the vision again is come to a standing stop, forget I need to declip and slowly fall over. I have had a near miss that was mostly because the trike was lower and harder to be seen then the vision. Compensating with taller flag pole. I've not been brave enough to take the trike into urban riding other than large protected rides. But then I was never particularly comfortable in urban riding on the vision either. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by square_corners on Aug 1st, 2016, 7:12pm I noticed Flying Lazy Boy used Square Corners' name in vain while postulating on the merits of three-wheelers vs two-wheelers (bents, that is). Paul, I bet you figured I would never see that! Well, truthfully, this is the first time I've ever read this category - fascinating, both yours and Doug's comments. I always assume I've already bought my "too old to ride anything else" machine and that would be the 700. It helps that I love riding it, even though I have other options at the moment. When riding it at White Rock Lake, i can keep up with the 2-wheelers with some effort and that's great - I get an excellent workout! I still love the Bacchetta, too, but it's too easy to out pace other Clowns at the lake. But sometimes I'm going for the 100 mile so when the others go home, I get busy with the rest of the ride and it's faster doing 100 on the Bacchetta than the trike. The Bacchetta, of course, is great for mixing it up with the road bikes, as long as I never draft and give them as much space as I can. This past Saturday was a good example of that. The negative on the Bacchetta is that I can go down on that more easily than on the trike, although I never have in 6 years of riding it. Fingers crossed my good luck holds up. Of course, I also love riding the DF's too, in certain circumstances and I am relatively unique in that respect among bent riders. The DF is potentially the most dangerous option and that thought always crosses my mind when I do a ride on one. Paul, if you get your very own trike, you would have no trouble out-pacing Square Corners! I'm 10 years older than you and I will never be as close to your fitness level as I am right now, which means you have no worries about keeping up with Square Corners! I think you have a few years left on the 2-wheel option, but it's good you are thinking ahead. As for the tandem, I have seen tandem trikes on some of the rally rides I've done recently - no need to give up tandem riding if you had one of them. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Phantom Rider on Aug 1st, 2016, 7:40pm Paul I can assure you the internal discussion has occurred with many others regardless of the format we ride. I have had this conversation with many of the DF riders on group rides who say I gotta get me one of those and get off this thing, I've had the discussion with myself to get back on the 700 hanging in my garage. I too have eaten more than my share of concrete at low speed and as fast as 20 mph. When I dropped into the crack at alliance airport at 20 mph and went down I seriously had this conversation. Perhaps it's the blessing of not being seriously hurt or broken anything that keeps us going back or thank God the health allows us to continue riding what we love. My catrike 700 hangs in my garage and I have about 1200 miles on it in a little over 2 years, my CA2 is less than 2 years old and has 12,000 on it. You and I are close in age, I'll turn 59 in October and plan to retire in 2 years. I seriously think about my health, the things I love to do and my life in general. I am convinced the bike is an integral part of who I am and will continue to be. I have a blast on the trike but dude, it's not the CA2. My philosophy is pretty simple, I believe that if its meant to be it's going to happen and I cannot control it therefore I ride with caution and enjoy myself. As of late I have become a little more cautious, I even turned around and came home Tuesday when I saw lightning in the sky [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]. The biggest downside of the trike for me is visibility and I know there are many faces to the argument. My greatest concern is not being seen or being able to see and personally that outweighs the fear of two wheels. I often see a car or a pedestrian doing something that I know will impact one us and have time to react when on the bike. By the way I too have rolled the 700 and landed on my shoulder and head...no visible damage...my wife says not all damage is visible but then again she said that before it happened too. Life is full of risks and we either accept or reject them each and every day. We should not allow fear to dominate us and control or take away the things we love. As we traverse the Texas highways we often see the giant DOT signs informing us of how many people have lost their lives on Texas highways to date, yet we continue to drive, allow our loved ones to drive and pray for safety. Life is to short not to have fun. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by rmillay on Aug 1st, 2016, 8:29pm We wouldn't ostrich-ize you, Paul. Of course, we probably already are. The trike is fun. Going fast is fun, and I don't do that well on a trike, so I still ride the bike. The only thing that's changed is now I'm looking for that magic trike, instead of the magic bike. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Aug 1st, 2016, 9:00pm MrWizard wrote:
I think I'd like to take you up on that, Sir.... Thank you! |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Mdicke on Aug 1st, 2016, 10:32pm Okay I am bit of a newbie to the recumbent world having gotten my first less than two years ago. I got the Rans F5 because I still like to kick it when I want and I have never looked back to going bent. I have never been a consistently fast rider but I am more than satisfied with what am able to do on the F5. Last fall I had the opportunity to find a crack at speed down hill but other than chewed up glutes escaped serious injury. Since I have been back on the bike I still crank it up when can but with a more wary eye for road surface. In March I bit the bullet for a trike because I wanted to have the ability do rides and not have a concern for road surface changes. After a spill on a section of gravel road in the middle of a ride I have not gotten comfortable in loose surfaces on the two wheeler. I chose the 700 because of the the level of performance those of who have them have achieved and it fit my budget. While I have not been able to achieve the same level of performance I have on the F5, I am good with where I am for the riding I have managed this year. For urban street riding I especially like the trike because I do not have to think/be concern with start at stop lights or on hills. In the end though it still comes down to Doug's comment - if you are having fun (whatever that means to you) and it gets you out on the road , the machine type is really not important. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Aug 2nd, 2016, 8:27am And of course, if I follow the same trend I've done with my 2-wheelers, "different tools for different jobs", just one trike won't be enough... [smiley=whistling.gif] I'd need one for fast rides, and one for more casual / rough road scenarios... perhaps another for touring.... a tandem for two... Oh, Lawd, here we go again... [smiley=shrug.gif] |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by MrWizard on Aug 2nd, 2016, 9:25am Welcome to my hell. (he says with 2 more velomobiles on order) FlyingLaZBoy wrote:
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by jrob_bent on Aug 2nd, 2016, 10:09am FlyingLaZBoy wrote:
Here, here! I second that emotion. Ha. Just go by Jay's garage and ride whatever Jay isn't riding. LOL. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by reever on Aug 2nd, 2016, 5:29pm I love my Expedition almost as much as I love my titanium hip, that I worry about on wet days. I thought I'd only ride the trike on sloppy days, but I find myself riding it more often than that--on days when I just don't want to worry about anything, but I still want a workout. It also allows me to fly a big American flag that I would never do on my bike. What you lack in linear speed you gain in the really neat feel of those lateral g's!!! |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Action Lad on Aug 2nd, 2016, 6:14pm FlyingLaZBoy wrote:
A Word from the Dark Side of the Dark Side Paul, you wondered if you were going to hear it from others if you rode a trike. Yep, though not so much from rbent because now there are lots of trikes in the group which was only, or nearly only bikes. I got the untoward comments and gestures about trikes when I started here which are unlikely to occur again. Will you get it from the uprights? Yep, each new group seeing you on a trike will have the same or more of those comments and judgements until they run out of things to say, and/or you prove the trike's performance, something they have never seen before. Your performance in high speed cruising? Depends on your motor, but it's possible to go far fast. When I get the linke to Steve Valero's work on the 700, I'll pass it along. : ) If I get the wind to favor me, magic can happen, even for me: https://youtu.be/vbVSxf0j9ZU So why do I favor trikes over bikes even after finding a fast highracer bike? They are the best platform for explosive high speeds. I am predominantly fast twitch in my muscle make up. Anyone else on this forum a former competitive track and field sprinter? Then you would know what it means to deliver 100% of your power, (for me ~ 1100 watts), from the very first stroke: https://youtu.be/3etTylLFxs4 When you do that on a bent bike, my experience is that you lose the stability of the rear wheel, it gets squirrelly and fishtales. On a tadpole, I can dump all that energy into take off, and the trike tracks straight because of the two front wheels, as Jay explained to me. Drag racing is still not often seen in the U.S. Most of it is underground, like Wolfpack Hustle Drags: (go to 2:00) https://youtu.be/AmG9ewGwjTc High speed stability in turns When turning on a trike you don't have to worry about surprise sand, water, or any other debris just around the corner. On a trike, it's even more fun. One day, I will find the perfect, wide corner, spread some sand, and figure out drifting on a trike. When the surface is dry and clean, you can take a turn sharper and faster than you would dare on a bike. At WRL, at the bridges at bottom of Garland road, I take those turns between 22 mph and 25 mph, especally on fresh tires. In fact, on a 700, inside wheel lift is so gradual and predictable that you can explore and learn that edge and use it in your performance riding experiences. I LOVE it: https://youtu.be/T8ipMKhmPRc That's why I am "Base Trike," though I am faster over a long distance on the bike. So, if your pleasure is high performance riding, go trike for the stability and to explode with wild abandon. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by aikigreg on Aug 3rd, 2016, 12:44am Everything's a risk. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by reever on Aug 3rd, 2016, 10:01am 4 wheels bad, 2 and 3 wheels good! |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by MrWizard on Aug 3rd, 2016, 11:25am [smiley=jawdrop.gif] https://youtu.be/85RRWo3D6h0 https://youtu.be/34_NbogPf5Y http://en.velomobiel.nl/quattrovelo/ reever wrote:
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by richardr on Aug 3rd, 2016, 2:29pm If you would like to try our Greenspeed GTT with Terri, let me know. Vicky and I sure enjoy riding it. I find riding a 3 vs 2 wheel tandem and not having to worry about it tipping over, really reduces my stress. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Phantom Rider on Aug 3rd, 2016, 8:51pm Dadgum Paul...made me feel guilty for leaving that 700 hanging in the garage so this morning she went for a ride. Didn't have much time so I figured what the heck. Rode a typical 25 mile loop for me that normally I ride at 18+ on the CA2 and managed to eek out 15.7 on the trike this morning. Still amazes me at the extremes automobiles will go to so they can avoid the trike but will ride alongside me on the bike. The trike is fun but have mercy it's a bone shaker on the chip seal. I'm seriously thinking of how I can incorporate at least one ride a week on the trike into my normal routine....it's gonna be tough but I'm gonna give it a shot. If for no other reason it makes me a better rider as it forces me to improve my pedal stroke as I overcome the pedal steer. Might also keep me from thinking of selling and figuring out what I could buy next. Thanks Paul |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Bud_Bent on Aug 3rd, 2016, 9:21pm I'm 65 now and still ride 5,500 miles a year. It's strictly two wheels for me. I'm not considering anything else. Perhaps one of these years.... |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Action Lad on Aug 4th, 2016, 4:32pm [quote author=MrWizard link=1470079623/15#16 date=1470241552 https://youtu.be/85RRWo3D6h0 https://youtu.be/34_NbogPf5Y http://en.velomobiel.nl/quattrovelo/ [smiley=jawdrop.gif] Beautiful machines, Doug. Just beautiful. Any idea when they're due out? Scouring YouTube now, for more video. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Aug 5th, 2016, 2:37pm Well, I've borrowed the 700 from Doug, and took it down to WRL last night... Only had to move the boom about 1/4", and had to remove the rear rack to be able to fit it into the Prius with that big 700 wheel on the back. It's a bit longer than the Tour II, but still fits! http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/700Prius1.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/700Prius1.jpg.html) Doug's got a high-performance 808 carbon wheel on this machine, and high quality ceramic bearings... these wheels roll FOREVER... but that carbon wheel is LOUD... one problem with having your head only a few inches away. There's no computer on it, so I used my phone RideWithGPS tracker for after-the-fact data. I did one "casual" lap, testing out the feel, and rediscovering the pedal steer that I encountered when I rode Bob Millay's 700 a few months ago -- which seems to be from transmitting the leg push up through my shoulders, because if I sat up somewhat while still pedaling, it mostly disappeared. Found that I could mostly ignore the random road crack or imperfection, with only minor jarring - so that was a plus... but as Phantom just mentioned, it IS a bit of a boneshaker - but it's the nature of the beast, with skinny 100psi tires and no suspension. I then did one "serious" lap, clockwise for 8+ miles, and averaged 19+ mph, with a high of 26... was running 18-22 mph along the East side, http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/eastside.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/eastside.jpg.html) Had a couple DFs pacing me at 22-25mph for a while on West Lawther, until I slowed down for a car and they went on around.. http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/westside.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/westside.jpg.html) So, it's a couple mph slower than the Xstream, but that's no surprise, especially with me being new to the 700. Again, the reduced need to worry about road imperfections so much was an interesting mental change, and the handling was superb, as expected -- no brake steer whatsoever, and very stable in quick turns. Of course, Terrie has now started quizzing me on why I'm trying a trike... So I had to reassure her this morning that I'm not in "purchase" mode... :D I'll probably take it on the GDB Airport ride, tomorrow. PB |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by MrWizard on Aug 5th, 2016, 3:57pm Mine is due next March -- about a year of delay .. Noone else has gotten one yet outside of a select set of prototypes and I'm #44 on the list so I suspect march will get pushed out. Action Lad wrote:
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by jayg on Aug 5th, 2016, 8:21pm FlyingLaZBoy wrote:
[smiley=jawdrop.gif] Forget what I said about bringing my VTX+ trike to WRL next Tuesday night. :D |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by reever on Aug 6th, 2016, 8:03am 6,000 pounds bad, 30 pounds or so good??? |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Aug 6th, 2016, 3:49pm Cat700 Self-evaluation #2 -- The GDB Airport Ride. Took the 700 out to experiment with the GDB group this morning. The Airport Ride is 22+ miles out, then either around and back for 63 total or just back for 42+ total, and typically rolls between 18 and 22 mph, with a sprint zone in the last two miles of the first leg out to the Shell station at Royal/635. This is not a "hammer" ride, but it DOES roll at ~20mph. I was planning to do the out-and-back. Today's group had about 25 riders, and there was lots of good-natured kidding in the parking lot before the rollout... but I could see the fear in their eyes... [smiley=cheesy.gif] I reassured them that I'd stay in the back, and not mix it up in any pacelines (such that occur in a GDB ride) -- and I did just that, hanging at the back of the group all the way out for the first 20. You can see from the mph chart that the ride mostly stayed between 18 and 22. We hit a LOT of red lights, today, so there were lots of stops. http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/airport1_1.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/airport1_1.jpg.html) http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/airport2.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/airport2.jpg.html) I was pleasantly surprised by the trike's ability to hang tight in the 18-22mph range when needed, without having to just exhaust myself. I felt good enough to start considering doing the whole 63+ miles... When we got to the 2 mile "Sprint Zone" industrial section, the pace picked up a bit, but we were still rolling at only 22ish. I hung at the back for a while, then kicked out left and started to make my way to the front of the group... hearing "Uh, oh, there he goes!" from a couple people [smiley=lolk.gif] Reaching the leaders, I said "I thought maybe you had forgot about me, way in the back..." That got a laugh... I then kicked it up to go ahead, and only one rider latched on for that half mile or so. Neither one of us had a computer, so I when I checked the RideWithGPS tracker, I saw we hit a high of ~29mph in that section. http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/sprint0.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/sprint0.jpg.html) http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/sprint1.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/sprint1.jpg.html) It was apparently hot enough that nobody wanted to go around the airport, so everyone went back from there. I stayed with the group for the first 10 miles, then fell off the pace to accompany a couple other riders who were starting to struggle with the morning heat. I also started to get some heel pain, like I was wearing a blister on the back of both heels -- I've had this happen before, on bikes with high pedal position; apparently my shoes rub differently in that situation. Overall, I'd say that the 700 is about 10% slower than the Xstream, regarding "cruising speed" and "top end" -- not too surprising, overall -- but it was good to confirm that I could stay in the 20mph range on longer group rides. Mentally, I never thought ONCE about falling, due to cracks/holes in the pavement -- so that's a definite plus for three wheels. Granted, it IS like playing Space Invaders, trying to maneuver three different wheel tracks through road imperfections! Thanks again for the loaner, Doug -- good fun! [smiley=dankk2.gif] [smiley=dancer.gif] |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Action Lad on Aug 7th, 2016, 12:49am Outrageous performance, Paul. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Aug 7th, 2016, 7:03am 'Performance' isn't really the right word. I was honestly curious if I could keep the airport ride pace for the entire distance, and it turns out that I could. Granted, the high quality components of this particular 700 certainly contribute! |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Patti on Aug 7th, 2016, 3:42pm Two wheels are great. So are three wheels. Buy a trike to go with your bikes. Ride whatever works best for the situation on any given ride. You already know how things are- sometimes you want to do some serious riding and other times you just want to have fun. With both trike and bike, you always have the perfect ride. If, at some point in the future, one of them stops being fun, get rid of it. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by JimFPU on Aug 8th, 2016, 10:43am I went down on the Stratus that I got from you one time. Didn't stop me from riding it. But I can say that my Speed, 700, and now my Quest have been the most fun of all the cycling I've done since I was 2 years old riding my mom's bike (then they got me my own!) I've never really gained much speed difference from those first days on a bent, when I was actually worried about those things. I'm still in the 12-14 mph range on the 700, mostly because I ride with others and enjoy the ride. On occasion that I do go out to really give it what I've got and have some fun I'm in the 18-22 mph range. Then add the velo fairing...oh man that's just too fun, but my average speed is around 20-22 mph in the Quest. Of course it's a 70 pound trike, and I hate climbing...I just enjoy the ride. Who care what others say! And I passed you on a ride once, so my life is almost complete. [smiley=pepper.gif] Don't tell everyone else it was on a group ride and Terry was on the back of your bike... This is the latest update to my Quest: http://im1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/004022686779/media/41415741825/medium/1469221725/enhance |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Aug 8th, 2016, 11:58am While I like the aerodynamics of the recline, and the relative speed potential, running with the high pressure skinny tires makes every ride rather jarring (not surprising). I'm starting to form the opinion that the 700 is somewhat limited in its versatility... yes, I know, different tools for different jobs -- ...but if I had to have only ONE trike, 1) what's the next step model away from the 700, with a bit less recline, yet still "fast"; and/or 2) do any of you 700 owners change to wider tires (swap wheels) when you're doing rides that are either more casual or where you know the roads are going to be less than smooth? |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by JimFPU on Aug 8th, 2016, 12:33pm I agree the ride on my 700 can be 'rough' at times, especially after the fully suspended Quest. But, I don't change tires and all that like some. I ride the skinny's all the time. The one thing is after the Quest: I 'feel' faster...might just be that I can see the ground again, or the rough feel of the road. But they're both great for me! |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by rmillay on Aug 8th, 2016, 7:40pm I can't deny the harshness of the ride on the 700. That's the reason I use a seat pad on mine. The rid is improved noticeably with it. I also run a 28-622 on the back. Other than going tubeless, I wouldn't recommend much change in the tires for the 700. Reviews suggest the new VTX and the Carbontrikes have a smoother ride than the 700, but either of them cost more than a custom seat pad. Were I starting over, I might have chosen the Expedition instead. The mote upright seat is easier on the neck, and the wider wheels allow selection of smoother riding tires, but you still have to search hard to find good rolling tires. The weight penalty is not too bad. It boils down to the question, do you want a fast trike, or a comfy one. I guarantee on smooth, flat pavement, even I can smoke it on the old 700, and in reasonable comfort. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Mdicke on Aug 8th, 2016, 9:56pm The previous owner put 35s all around on my 700. Since I have not ridden with the skinnies I can not say more soft or not. I will say it is still a bit jarring on rough sections. I will also say I am definitely slower on the trike than on my high racer but some of that is due to a lower level of training this year. As for the next level trike the 559 might be an option although it sits higher than the expedition but the seat recline is also adjustable. I do not remember if it will match the expedition on recline. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by esbee on Aug 9th, 2016, 9:45am is the cat ok? Susan in Paris [smiley=shrug.gif] [smiley=runover.gif] |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Patti on Aug 9th, 2016, 10:46am You could always consider an ICE Sprint 26 with full suspension. Put the skinniest, highest pressure tires on it that will fit and let the suspension smooth out the ride while you fly. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Aug 10th, 2016, 7:17am That's what Dave Rothgeb rides, out in Portland. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Aug 10th, 2016, 7:42am Took the 700 out to the GDB Mesquite ride last night... The "fast" group tends to roll at 18-22 mph, similiar to the Airport ride, but Mesquite has got more hills to climb, and almost no stoplights -- so this was ~16 miles of nonstop keeping up, out to the 7-11 on Cartwright. Frankly, this is the hardest I've worked on the Mesquite ride in a LONG time -- it felt more like a 16 mile time trial! But, I kept up... Observations -- 1) the 700 coasts downhill at essentially the same speed at the DF riders do -- so the three wheels and perhaps additional wind resistance definitely make it slower than the Xstream in that regard... I easily outcoast the others when on the Xstream. However, I hit 37mph on the Barnes Bridge downhill, and the steering was rock solid. 2) When putting power to the pedals during hill climbing, sitting up in a "crunch" position greatly reduces the pedal steer effect. 3) Again, I had essentially no mental concerns about road hazards causing a wreck. 4) Riding the 700 in a group gives me an excellent view of DF riders' calves [smiley=cheesy.gif] By the time we got to the 7-11, I was tired -- the ride back was at a more casual pace. Here is the route, and speed/elevation tracking for the segment out to the 7-11: http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/mesq1.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/mesq1.jpg.html) http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/mesq2.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/mesq2.jpg.html) Compare that elevation map to that of the Airport Ride -- you'll also notice many more stoplight stops on the Airport Ride. http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/mesq3.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/mesq3.jpg.html) It was an interesting challenge, keeping up with the group -- I doubt I would have been able to, on a slower machine. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Patti on Aug 10th, 2016, 8:05am Utah Trikes is having a sale on the Trisled Rotovelo. $1000 off the standard model and $2000 off the EV (electric assist). |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by square_corners on Aug 10th, 2016, 8:07am Paul, I don't get a "pedal, steer effect" on my 700. I have never had to crunch up to put power to the pedals. Maybe it's the ultra skinny front tires or something slightly out of adjustment on that trike. Of course, I use the big ring and shift down in the back if necessary when climbing easy hills. I use the middle ring on steeper hills. That may be the difference on my trike. I have often wished to try the trike on that ride but was certain I wouldn't be able to keep up on the climbs. Seeing that you had to employ your best effort, I now know it would not go well for me. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by MrWizard on Aug 10th, 2016, 9:57am I can ride that 700 (and my carbon trike) without hands for quite a distance and it will stay steady in track .. I also show 0.01% deviation on the garmin "cycle dynamics" pedal power meters over any given ride . So I'm blaming the engine ;D square_corners wrote:
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by square_corners on Aug 10th, 2016, 12:54pm Figured if I responded and pointed a finger at a potential trike issue, Mr Wizard would respond [smiley=tongue.gif] Really didn't think there could be an alignment issue or any deviation given that it is Mr Wizard's trike so I agree there's only one possibility remaining - the engine! |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by MrWizard on Aug 10th, 2016, 4:41pm Well paul might have whacked it into something, I did witness him riding over cobblestones, or simply by carrying it in a prius could have had negative effects so you really don't know. square_corners wrote:
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by rmillay on Aug 10th, 2016, 7:58pm Doug, you and Daniel are very experienced cyclists. When I loaned Daniel my 700 last year (yes, I'm the guilty one) I commented at the start that the pedal steer would go away with practice. By five miles into the ride, I was following him up a hill and watching him: no pedal steer. What took me months to tame took him a couple of miles. I also noticed no sign of the rear flexibility Bob Wand complained about with Daniel's new 700. So it's apparent to me it's all about technique. Paul, being in test mode, hasn't concentrated on technique yet. If he starts spending time on a fast tadpole, he'll figure it out. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by MrWizard on Aug 10th, 2016, 8:47pm I know -- I'm just teasing paul .. I can't speak for Daniel but i had a UCI coach that believed in training on rollers . every practice session before a ride we'd do 20-30 minutes on the blasted things. IMO nothing teaches you a smooth pedal stroke faster than fear of falling and loosing skin rmillay wrote:
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Aug 12th, 2016, 5:00pm Smooth pedal stroke is impossible when you're cranking about as hard as you can trying to keep up.... ;D |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Aug 13th, 2016, 4:31pm Testing complete on the 700, for now. Thanks, to Jay, for some quickie headrest repair! Trike has been returned to its owner. Fun evaluation, good future reference. Thanks, Doug!!! Only real "negative" about the experience was the heel blister/irritation that resurfaced after strenuous riding, possibly tied to the higher foot position and shoe slipping. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by jrob_bent on Aug 15th, 2016, 9:10am I think after what happened to me yesterday, when I am able to ride again it will be a trike. I am in Louisiana visiting my mother. I rode to town, about 14 miles, and was headed back to my mother's house trying to outrun a thunderstorm. I was going down a steep little hill hitting it hard, 42 mph, when I thought I had hit something and went down. The state trooper said I slid over 140 feet. The witnesses said a pickup decided to do a u-turn and hit my rear tire. I heard his motor, but never saw him for all the rain in my eyes. My wife and niece came and took me to the ER where they pulled 1/4", 1/2", and 3/4" rocks out of my forearm. They were even with the top of my skin. Ouch. My hip has no skin. My right leg has rode rash and my ribs too. My Musashi seat, seat pad, and seat tube are trash. The tube is ground down at a 45 degree angle and you can see inside the tube. The rear derailleur is broke, right mirror broke, and right brake lever is ground down. No telling what else is broke. Several trucks and suv's went by, some blowing their horn and laughing at me, and did not stop. I guess they don't like bikes, let alone a funny looking one. An older black gentleman stopped and help me get up and let me use his cell phone to call my wife. My phone was in my seat bag and was crushed. I do know I will never grate anything with a food grater again since I know how it feels now! Of course, even with 3 layers of gauze and an ace bandage, my hip bleeds right through it all. darn Plavix and aspirin. I am going to get a trike and go back to bicycle touring. That way I can smell the roses, not road rash ointment! |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by jayg on Aug 15th, 2016, 1:59pm Man, Jerry! Glad you made it out alive and with no broken bones. jrob_bent wrote:
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Phantom Rider on Aug 15th, 2016, 2:05pm Jerry, sounds like you are blessed to be alive. Take care my friend, road rash is very painful especially in the shower the next couple of days afterward. jayg wrote:
[/quote] |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by CruzbikeChris on Aug 15th, 2016, 2:58pm Sorry to hear about your run in Jerry. Hope you get to feeling better and heal all up fine. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by jrob_bent on Aug 15th, 2016, 6:51pm Thanks guys. I went back to the doctor today to get the bandage changed, and the nurse ran out of the room with her hand over her mouth. The doctor came in to look at my wounds and asked if someone shot me with buck shot! No, but it feels like it. The doctor also said no bike riding for 4-6weeks. Yeah, right! If I have to wear Hockey gear, I'll be back in a week to 10 days. Looking at a TerraTrike. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Phantom Rider on Aug 15th, 2016, 8:03pm jrob_bent wrote:
Hey Jerry bonzai CycleWerx is a terratrike dealer located on the north end of Fort Worth, easy access to you. I have used this shop for years and have never had an issue. When you go in there just tell them the old man with a pony tail sent you, they will get a kick out of that. I bought both trikes there and if my bike needs something I can't do it always goes to them. Brian is the owner and will treat you right. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by jrob_bent on Aug 15th, 2016, 8:34pm Thanks for the info, Joe. You, me, Chris, and whoever else need to get together and ride when it cools off and I am healed up. Maybe we could get Greg, Matt, and some others together for a nice, hard ride. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Aug 16th, 2016, 9:19am Ahhhh, darn, JRob... so sorry.... [but, 42 mph in the rain??? Are you NUTZ???] [smiley=injured.gif] |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by jrob_bent on Aug 16th, 2016, 11:36am FlyingLaZBoy wrote:
Well, I don't have any paper to prove it, but yes! [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif] |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by reever on Aug 16th, 2016, 6:42pm Jrob, You need to move to a flatter part of the world.......somewhere that has a dedicated path that is only for bikes. That wreck may have used up eight of your nine lives! |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by rmillay on Aug 16th, 2016, 6:49pm jrob_bent wrote:
Attaboy, Jerry! Don't let those "doctors" tell you what to do. If they could figure out a way to get you to exercize sitting on your couch, they'd tell you to do that. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by jrob_bent on Aug 16th, 2016, 7:54pm I don't need no stinkin bike path. Ha My body will tell me when I can ride again, I can't depend on the brain! The doctor wanted to hospitalize me. I bet he gets a kick back for every patient he sends. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by jrob_bent on Aug 18th, 2016, 7:41pm I think the doctor might be right after all. It really hurts! |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Action Lad on Aug 20th, 2016, 1:01am jrob_bent wrote:
That's the spirit, jrob. We belong out there. So sorry for the accident. The officer knew enough to describe what happened, but does he know enough to nab the guy? Much success on your quest for your next set of wheels. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by jrob_bent on Aug 20th, 2016, 7:31pm Action Lad wrote:
That's the spirit, jrob. We belong out there. So sorry for the accident. The officer knew enough to describe what happened, but does he know enough to nab the guy? Much success on your quest for your next set of wheels. [smiley=thumbsup.gif][/quote] Thanks Action Lad. I am back in Texas and I finally have decent internet. The guy was local and lots of relatives there, I am just a darn yankee! Lol. I am starting to heal slowly, and of course I have been dreaming up a new, faster shell for the Moose. A buddy of mine from around Chicago, averaged over 24 mph and went 278 mies at Calvin's Challenge in 2009 with a coroplast shell. Actual riding average was 27+ mph, but with food and bath room stops, it brought it down to 24. So, I am thinking I will keep the Moose and go faster. LOL. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by jrob_bent on Aug 20th, 2016, 7:33pm P.S. Sorry I hi-jacked your thread Paul. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Aug 26th, 2016, 12:51pm No hijack, really -- crashing and road rash are definitely on topic!!! |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by jrob_bent on Aug 27th, 2016, 7:45am I decided that I am going to stick with the Moose low racer and turn it into a coroliner like my buddy, Tony, from Lemont, IL, who races and tours on his home made coroliner. Tony averages around 32 mph at the races, and he tours in the 20's, going 120 to 200 miles a day. Here is a video of Tony and Dennis Grelk at the finish of a 100 lap race. Tony is in the yellow one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NjRy1E38F0 Tony and I are going to meet up and ride the Natchez Trace a couple of days after Christmas. He will be riding from Lemont, IL. I will start from my mother's house in Louisiana. We will meet somewhere near Franklin, TN, and then ride south together to Natchez, MS. Anyone that would be interested in this tour is more than welcome to come along. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Action Lad on Aug 27th, 2016, 4:05pm jrob_bent wrote:
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by jrob_bent on Aug 27th, 2016, 7:56pm Action Lad wrote:
[/quote] The bike is a one of kind built by Tony himself. He calls it the Carp. It is a lwb. You can go to this site and read about people building racing and regular recumbents. http://www.recumbents.com/forums/default.asp. They also build velo's. It is the best site for racing and building recumbents. The average speed during the velodrome racing in streamliners, is around 35 mph. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Sep 27th, 2016, 1:35pm Tested out a Cat Expedition at RBM last night, since I was in the neighborhood... Still decent recline, with good turning radius... might be somewhat more versatile than a 700 and its like. |
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Title: Re: 2 wheels bad, 3 wheels good? Post by Patti on Sep 27th, 2016, 9:32pm Definitely the more versatile of the two, in my opinion. |
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