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https://rbentonline.org/YaBB.pl General Category >> rbent Lobby >> Out testing new home made body sock! https://rbentonline.org/YaBB.pl?num=1429539994 Message started by jrob_bent on Apr 20th, 2015, 9:26am |
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Title: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 20th, 2015, 9:26am It is cold, windy, and wet this morning. In the 40's with a wind chill around 38. I just finished my prototype body sock for the Phantom. If it performs well, I will remake it and use Velcro and zippers instead of clips and springs! If it works, film at eleven! Darn, I'll have to stretch the fabric and climb in from the bottom to get in it. |
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Title: Re: Ot testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 20th, 2015, 10:46am http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k510/ExclusiveSeniorPhotography/001_1.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/ExclusiveSeniorPhotography/media/001_1.jpg.html) http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k510/ExclusiveSeniorPhotography/002_1.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/ExclusiveSeniorPhotography/media/002_1.jpg.html) WOW!!! Does it work? YES! I am going to attach it now. I would say it gives 3-4 mph. Down wind about 8-9 mph. The wind is 18 mph gusting to 29 mph. A little dicey with the cross wind. Just have to be ready to lean that way! I will only use it in cold weather and on the Saturday morning road bike 30+ mile rides!!!! [smiley=pepper.gif] I think I am going to give them fits. They are already talking about how I did 2 days ago. I can hardly wait until I spring this on them! [smiley=cheers.gif] [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif] |
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Title: Re: Ot testing new home made body sock! Post by BentTrekker on Apr 20th, 2015, 11:31am jrob_bent wrote:
Wow! Great Job, Jerry! Looks like you're going to have a pretty fast ride going on there :D |
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Title: Re: Ot testing new home made body sock! Post by aikigreg on Apr 20th, 2015, 12:30pm F-15? Mig 23? What do we call it??? |
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Title: Re: Ot testing new home made body sock! Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 20th, 2015, 1:20pm Kinda looks like a big flashlight... :D |
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Title: Re: Ot testing new home made body sock! Post by CruzbikeChris on Apr 20th, 2015, 3:06pm Looks just like a Bic lighter to me. Light'm up Jerry! [smiley=runover.gif] |
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Title: Re: Ot testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 20th, 2015, 3:31pm Thanks fellows. I think I'll call it "The Big Black Bic flashlight-F62. The F for fat, 62 for age and apparently IQ! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] I think instead of Velcro, I'll use some 1/4" x 20 gauge aluminum strips and either small bolts or toggle clamps to attach it. I tend to be a bit rough with Velcro, as in pulling it apart. I will order some lighter color fabric also for warmer weather. Thinking about a low racer for next year and keep the Phantom to train and ride every day. Anybody have an opinion on a good low racer? [smiley=lolk.gif] |
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Title: Re: Ot testing new home made body sock! Post by aikigreg on Apr 20th, 2015, 4:04pm Well, the nocom and the morciglio are the fastest, but expensive or hard to come by. The baron, the performer, and others are cheaper, but heavier or need fiddling with. I think the best option is the vk2. Comfortable, light and stupid fast. There's one on brol last I looked. Come try mine out if you're close to my inseam. jrob_bent wrote:
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Title: Re: Ot testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 20th, 2015, 5:07pm aikigreg wrote:
[/quote] I will be there in a couple of weeks! Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 20th, 2015, 6:35pm I just watched some vk2's on youtube. They climb real well and man are they fast! Maybe my next bike!!!! [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif] |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by aikigreg on Apr 20th, 2015, 7:08pm Here's my fat arse on mine from the other day.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/aikigreg/vk2/115.jpeg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/aikigreg/media/vk2/115.jpeg.html) |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 20th, 2015, 8:35pm Love the glasses! |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 21st, 2015, 6:34am Greg, I can see the reason why you are so fast from the picture. Your legs look like a tree! I lost over 5 inches when my legs went into atrophy from taken Prednisone for 3 years, when you shouldn't take it for more than 6 weeks. It was either that are not breathe. But hey, I am still here. I do squats, leg curls, step ups, lunges, and climb hills a lot, and my legs are just now stating to grow again. Probably will never be the same, but what can you do? At least I am getting faster! |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by kenbent6 on Apr 21st, 2015, 2:09pm jrobbent, Captain America would APROVE!!! [smiley=deadhorsebeat.gif] |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by aikigreg on Apr 21st, 2015, 3:59pm I truly understand. My RA affects me in much the same way. RA often attacks muscles as well as joints. My eyes too, actually. Used to wrestle, do martial arts, race bmx as a kid, and power lift. My arms were big. Now they won't grow no matter what. Legs still respond to maintain size, which truthfully I could do without. I could also do without the fat, but yanno..... jrob_bent wrote:
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by Bud_Bent on Apr 21st, 2015, 8:06pm jrob_bent wrote:
Speed on a bike isn't about leg strength, not even a little bit. It's about heart and lungs. Leg strength will help in a short sprint or climb, but that's all. When you go into oxygen deficit after a few seconds, it's all about heart and lungs. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 21st, 2015, 8:57pm aikigreg wrote:
[/quote] Unfortunately, I to have rheumatoid and osteoarthritis. I played college football, power lifting and Olympic weightlifting, Golden Gloves, karate, aikido, plus 38 years as a structural Iron Worker. You can tell how dumb I am, it takes me two weeks just to watch 60 minutes! Wished I had listened to the old timers about taking care of my body. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 21st, 2015, 9:25pm Bud_Bent wrote:
Speed on a bike isn't about leg strength, not even a little bit. It's about heart and lungs. Leg strength will help in a short sprint or climb, but that's all. When you go into oxygen deficit after a few seconds, it's all about heart and lungs.[/quote] I agree Bud. Sprinting and climbing hills does take leg strength. And here in MO you had better have leg strength, because it ain't flat. And to maintain 30+ mph for a mile takes both strength and stamina, something I think Greg has! So, I think leg strength has a lot to do with speed. For long distance speed, you do need more cardio. But if two riders are racing, let us say a 10 lap race, and they are even coming to the finish line, the guy with the sprinters legs will win if everything else is equal. I know quiet a bit about lack of oxygen, I have had 2 lung diseases all my life. And now I have COPD. Before any ride, I have to take two puffs from my inhaler. That is why I have to work so hard to improve my lactate threshold. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by rmillay on Apr 21st, 2015, 10:23pm OK, Bud, cardio without leg strength will let you piddle around for miles and miles at low speed. Without leg strength, you won't go fast except down hill, and you had better live at the top of the hill, unless it has a T-bar. The fast folks have great cardio and great leg strength. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by aikigreg on Apr 21st, 2015, 11:11pm I find the truth to be somewhere in the middle. I get a lot of speed and can put a hurt on people with sheer strength. That pop to get up to the top of the hill or perhaps get/stay in a draft can be an advantage. But, if you do that more times than you can recover from, you suffer mightily. If I'd done any of that at Bessie's Creek I'd have been screwed long before the 12 was up. As it was, I had a good result with gas left in the tank. The aerobic capacity aids in the recovery. One other place that I think strength is helpful is with cadence. I can get into a bigger gear, use pure strength to get it going, but once I have it spinning the amount of power input needed to keep it spinning deceases dramatically. That 300 watt initial effort quickly becomes a 130 watt effort. I can tell you my quads are a different shape after 4 months of solid training..... rmillay wrote:
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 22nd, 2015, 6:06am rmillay wrote:
I agree rmillay. And Greg is also right about aerobic capacity. But saying leg strength has little to do with speed is a contradiction in its on self. You need both strength and cardio. You need the leg strength to get to speed and cardio to keep it there. And I stand by my original statement that Greg's legs look like a tree trunk! [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif] Then you look at Warren Beauchamp's legs and wonder how he is so fast. Believe me, he has tremendous leg strength as does Charlie Ollinger, and Jim and Maria Parker. And you are not going to win a race without being able to sprint, which is leg strength! [smiley=dbanana.gif] And you can't win a long race on shear strength, you need great cardio. Before I started getting serious with training, I tried riding big gears to go fast. I would wear out fast. Now I use lower gearing and spin faster. I am getting better cardio, but also I have built up my leg strength for when I need to climb those hills and sprint. So I agree you need cardio to last, but you also need leg strength. You can stick a fork in me now and roll me over, I am done! [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by Monkeywrangler22 on Apr 22nd, 2015, 7:08am Bud_Bent wrote:
I'd have to disagree some Bud. Lifting (deadlifts and squats) this past winter has helped me immensely with my on-bike speed, despite taking 8wks off the bike in the lovely Feb-Mar weather here. Now, I still can't sprint worth a tinkers dam on the bent, but I can sprint if I am on the DF (well for me is it a sprint...) |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by aikigreg on Apr 22nd, 2015, 12:22pm Muscle size is no indication of strength. I know female power lifters who you'd never realize could dead lift 400 pounds. The ability to gain muscle size is largely genetic. Strength isn't. You can influence that a lot with hard work. Arnold Schwarzenegger was famous for having puny looking calves on the bodybuilding community back in the day. But he wasn't weak! |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by reever on Apr 22nd, 2015, 8:50pm Seems like this little thread is all about assertion and then disagreement. I've got to throw my two cents worth in here. Muscle strength is 100% related to its cross-sectional area. Once you pass puberty you are stuck with the number of muscle (and fat) cells that you have at that point. When you stress them, they respond by getting thicker. That's called hypertrophy. Increasing the number of cells is called hyperplasia and that just don't happen with muscle or fat cells--the ones you've got just get bigger or smaller. What body builders build is blood flow through their muscles along with some hypertrophy. That's why Hans and Franz always say they want to "pump you up." They can pump up the volume of their muscles by increasing the blood flowing through their capillary beds. The work they do is great for muscular endurance, but not too much for cardiovascular endurance, since they work small muscle groups at a time. I have a friend who has a recumbent. When I got my Musashi we went for a ride in the neighborhood. He asked me if mine was really fast. I said I didn't know.Before I knew it he said, "Ready GO!" and started sprinting away for a block to the next stop sign. That was his measure of if a bike is fast. Since he squats 475 pounds, he will cook me on any short sprint like that, but I think we all know what would happen even in twenty miles. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by Bud_Bent on Apr 23rd, 2015, 8:37pm Everyone has enough leg strength to be a fast rider. So, I repeat, speed on a bike isn't about leg strength at all. Even a short sprint or climb at a hard effort will put you into oxygen deficit. Speed on a bike is about cardiopulmonary function. Period. Post whatever other BS you want, but it won't change that. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by reever on Apr 23rd, 2015, 8:54pm Wow, Bud! Really? BS??? |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by Bud_Bent on Apr 23rd, 2015, 9:34pm Sorry, but that's just how it is. Maintaining enough power to move yourself on a bicycle at speed for any length of time is a function of heart and lungs. Cardiopulmonary function per rider weight is the biggest indicator of rider speed of all. (That's why slender riders tend to be faster; their cardiopulmonary function to body weight ratio tends to be higher.) Things like aerodynamics, bike weight, rolling resistance, and pedaling efficiency matter, but are much less important. On longer rides, the other factor that becomes important is nutrition. Even the most slender of riders has enough body fat to power themselves for days, so those who can use fat efficiently can maintain more speed longer than those who must depend more on metabolizing carbohydrates. But if you study this stuff, you'll read a long time before you find much about leg strength. It truly is not much of a factor, unless you have something terribly wrong with your legs. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by reever on Apr 23rd, 2015, 10:21pm I was a little put back at the tone of your text, mostly because I was agreeing with your point. My buddy who can leg press 475 pounds is a very weak rider. In a mile he is in oxygen debt and his ride is over if he's trying to stick with me. That's the thing about riding versus running. When riding the effort required to maintain good speed on a flat is minimal because we (especially recumbents) are so efficient. In running when you go into oxygen debt it is a serious matter. We can go into little debts and pay them off over and over again on a bike ride--if we have our hearts and lungs in shape for it. That comes from spinning at high RPMs. Now can a guy with legs like trees succeed in the bike world? The answer is.....go pick a fight with Greg out there on the roads. He uses his trees to do some serious beat down. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by aikigreg on Apr 23rd, 2015, 11:04pm No way, Jose. Bud‘s a sneaky dude. I ain't messing with him. He's burned me up or pulled me so I would survive to the end of the ride more times than I can count. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 24th, 2015, 8:07am Bud_Bent wrote:
You can call it BS all you want to, but it still takes strength!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are just splitting hairs. I do agree you have to have good cardio, but saying leg strength has nothing to do with it is really BS! [smiley=jawdrop.gif] |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by Bud_Bent on Apr 24th, 2015, 8:29am There's a reason most of the top pro riders look like concentration camp survivors. The least amount of muscle mass you can have without hurting your cardiopulmonary capacity is the weight at which you will be fastest. I remember reading about how when Greg LeMond's family came to visit him while he was training in Europe, they thought he was terribly ill, he was so thin. But looks can be deceiving. One of the fastest riders I met in FWBA is built like a weightlifter. And I've been unable to keep up with more than one obese rider on club rides. Because it's the heart and lungs that matter most, you just can't tell how fast someone is on a bike by looking at them. And as we obsess over every bit of bike weight we can eliminate, and aerodynamic advantage we can gain, we get reminders every now and then about how much more important the rider's ability is, over and above all that. Greg and I got one of those reminders years ago on a summertime 200k when we rode with a rider who was training for Leadville. Sitting completely upright on a mountain bike, and running big knobby tires which made an alarming racket rolling down the road, he easily rode off and left us behind. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 24th, 2015, 8:46am Bud_Bent wrote:
I agree with all that Bud. But no matter the shape or size, it still takes strength along with cardio. You need oxygen to feed the muscles and strength for the force. I know a leg or arm size does not make any difference, but Greg does have some monster looking legs! I too had an experience like the one you mentioned. I was riding as fast as I could when an overweight guy on a too small mtb flew by me. He had to turn his knees about 45 degrees to the side to pedal. His tires were underinflated and his plumbers butt was hanging out, but try as I may, I could not catch him. About 5 miles down the road he stopped and I pulled up beside him. I asked him were he was going and he said he had just rode 20 miles to go ride the really steep mountain bike trails. It is at a place called Klondike Park and it has trails over 22% grade and about 150 feet tall. I watched him as he beat all the skinny young bloods. He must have outweighed everyone by at least 100 pounds. Got to ride before the storms hit. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by reever on Apr 24th, 2015, 8:58am I'm going to try to bridge a gap here. As I do a months-long build up to an event, I begin by spinning in a certain gear--gear X. If I go higher than gear X my RPMs drop too low. As the months pass and I continue training, I notice that I can now hit that next gear--gear X+1--and maintain my RPMs. Now spinning at the same RPM in a new higher gear nets me more speed. But what allowed me to handle pushing that higher gear? Was it cardiopulmonary, or was it muscular? I would say it is an increase in muscular strength. BUT it came along with an increase in CP strength and efficiency at the same time. They are connected at the hip with successful bikers. And from what I see, those professional cyclists do look like concentration camp survivors from the waist up. Their legs tell a different story. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by aikigreg on Apr 24th, 2015, 5:27pm Well, I consulted coaches Coggan and Allan, who are literally the guys who wrote the book on racing with power, and they were kind enough to respond to me. They more or less agree with Bud (and myself a bit). So strength can be a factor over a very short time think 200m sprint) , but any real distance negates strength. Their direct quote: Strength, force, and power are all different things. You also need to consider the duration over which power must be sustained. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by Bud_Bent on Apr 24th, 2015, 5:29pm reever wrote:
Cardiopulmonary improvement, and nothing else, no matter how much leg strength you may have gained. I don't know any other way to say it. Our limits on the bike for more than a short sprint are cardiopulmonary limits, not muscle limits. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 24th, 2015, 6:14pm http://cyclingtips.com.au/2009/09/speed-strength-and-endurance/ Read it! Can't argue with a stone! |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 24th, 2015, 6:25pm Here is another one:http://www.usacycling.org/a-case-for-strength-training-for-cyclists-a-practical-view-from-a-cycling-coach.htm I have the cyclist bible and several other great books. I think I will believe them. You don't get cardio without gaining strength. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by reever on Apr 24th, 2015, 6:32pm In response to the assertion that increased speed comes only from increases in cardiopulmonary efficiency..... I guess that's why Kenya and Ethiopia dominate the cycling world like they do with their off the charts cardiopulmonary capacity, or why Michael Phelps would be the Las Vegas bookie's favorite to be the Tour champ without ever practicing bicycle riding because of his maxVO2. You can't just be a one note Nelly, here. Muscles move pedals--hearts and lungs support them. There is a difference between strength, force and power. Strength allows for greater force. Power is defined as work/time, or the rate at which work is done. We choose how that work is done by choosing a low gear and high spin rate or a high gear and a low spin rate. The former allows our hearts to do lots of work and gives our legs a break by allowing each pedal stroke to require less force, and the latter transfers the work load to our legs, which tire many times faster when they are required to supply large amounts of force per stroke. I think we mostly agree that CP carries the day in sustained efforts. Where we part company is the belief that leg muscles do not gain strength when exercised. I believe they do, and that their increased strength along with increased CP capacity leads to more sustained speed. |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 24th, 2015, 7:33pm reever wrote:
Reever, you said what I have tried to say. But you are way more eloquent about it than I am. You can not increase cardio without a gain in strength! Their is endurance strength & sprint strength. But you have to have strength or fall over. I am done with this subject. Just think, all this discussion because of a silly comment about the size of someone's legs!! [smiley=whistling.gif] |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by reever on Apr 24th, 2015, 8:25pm I hear you jrob! I'm laughing our loud right now as I read your post. Much ado about next to nothing....... |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by jrob_bent on Apr 24th, 2015, 9:38pm reever wrote:
Yeap! I know this word is not politically correct, but what the hey!!! [smiley=stirthepot.gif] |
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Title: Re: Out testing new home made body sock! Post by Bud_Bent on Apr 24th, 2015, 10:15pm Trained muscles are more efficient at the task they are trained for. If that's what you're considering stronger, then OK. But that's such a tiny part of speed, compared to cardiopulmonary. When Lance Armstrong decided to cheat to make himself faster, did he use anabolic steroids to make his legs stronger, or did he blood dope to improve his cardiopulmonary function? I usually refrain from arguing in this forum, for just this reason. It's a waste of time. But when posted information gets this bad in this forum that I moderate, I really have a hard time remaining silent. For all of you newbies reading this, never believe that leg muscle strength gains will do much for making you faster on the bike, because they won't. With that, I'm locking this thread. |
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