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General Category >> Technical >> Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
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Message started by jayg on Jan 21^st, 2014, 6:17pm

Title: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Jan 21^st, 2014, 6:17pm

Haven’t bought a new bike since the end of 2011, because I haven’t seen anything that interests me more than the bikes I've previously purchased. I've owned a lot of different types of recumbents, but never a SWB MBB. Didn’t like the looks of Cruzbikes, until the Vendetta appeared on the scene. Then, I happened to see some photos of the Silvio 2.0 with a chainstay extension. I LIKE IT! Its 27 degree seat angle makes it a more practical bike for general riding than the Vendetta with its extremely low seat, yet it still has a fairly aero configuration. Wonder if there are any Silvio 2.0 owners out there that could answer a few questions I haven’t seen posted in the Silvio Forum? My questions are:

1. The seat pan is several inches narrower than the typical hard shell pan. I am 5’-8” and weigh 144 pounds. I’m not comfortable on most hard shell seats, unless I have 2” of firm foam between my butt and the pan. How comfortable is the seat w/padding? Can the pad foam be replaced, or is the seat cover sealed?

2. Does the bike wobble in sprints and aggressive hill climbing when the rider is clipped in and both pushing and pulling on the pedals? Does it require continual steering input to counterbalance the alternating forces trying to torque the MBB assembly around the head tube axis?

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by catroad254 on Jan 21^st, 2014, 9:21pm

I'm trying to get down to Vite while I am in Florida to look at the Silvio and the MetaPhysic. The Cruzbike I rode last summer was comfortable but that is a very individual thing. I know you can't tolerate the set up I use on the Aero for example. There is some pedal steer on the Cruzbikes but as usual it is spin baby spin to control that.

Corsa Ken

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Jan 21^st, 2014, 10:28pm

catroad254 wrote:

Thanks, Ken. Spinning is my game, since I ride with short cranks. Looking forward hearing what you think of the bike, after you check it out at Vite. While researching it, I read that the ride quality of the Meta was not near as good as that of the fully-suspended Silvio. Hey, maybe we'll be doing the dual Silvio 2.0 thing at WRL in the future.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Jan 23^rd, 2014, 11:00am

catroad254 wrote:

Ken, say hi for me.... enjoy! They've got both the Silvio and the Vendetta there at the Vite shop...

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by CruzbikeChris on Jan 24^th, 2014, 6:01pm

Ok, well let's see if I can try an answer theses in my own way. I do not own a Silvio but I do have a custom Cruzbike conversion that I built up myself and love it.

The seat pan on mine is just a little bigger than the new Silvio seat pan but very similar I have been told. I am significantly bigger th.an you at 210, 5' 9". The pad is capable of change out if you like. I have added a lumbar padding in mine and truly love the thing. Ventist pads are a popular upgrade on the Cruzbikes and I have even considered it myself.

As for the wobble it doesn't for me now but I have been riding it for almost 2 years clipped in and wouldn't change a thing, well except a new Silvio if it were in the budget, but that's for later. I have only ridden a few other bents so can't really compare a lot but am dead set on the FWD MBB design with the standard road group and standard chain length.

A fun added benefit is I can also ride hands free for a good distance if the wind is not too bad.

You are all more than welcome to rest ride anytime you wish. I live north of Denton in the Sanger area just let me know.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Jan 24^th, 2014, 6:42pm

CruzbikeChris wrote:

Chris,

Thanks for your input and offer.

The Ventisit pad doesn't work for me, because of my light weight (Feels very stiff). However, it does work for a couple of riding friends of mine that are over 30 pounds heavier than I.

I've been viewing Silvio and Vendetta helmetcam videos this afternoon, and didn't see much triangle movement while the riders were climbing and sprinting. Viewed one video of a Silvio rider riding no hands at a good clip. There was hardly any triangle movement. Pretty impressive.

I have 7 years of experience riding high racers, so I think I probably have a leg up on rapidly learning to ride an MBB bike.

I live a pretty far distance from you (East Dallas), but may take you up on your offer. If I do, I'll PM you to check on your schedule.

Jay G.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Feb 8^th, 2014, 4:17pm

USPS delivered a tee shirt and assembly instructions this afternoon. Now if I just had a framekit.........

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af339/jayg_2010/DSC00310_zpse7d57d31.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/jayg_2010/media/DSC00310_zpse7d57d31.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jcsadowski on Feb 8^th, 2014, 4:41pm

How much instruction do you need to assemble a t-shirt?

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Feb 8^th, 2014, 6:40pm

jcsadowski wrote:

How much instruction do you need to assemble a t-shirt?

That's a good example of why you were elected #1 Clown. :D

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jcsadowski on Feb 8^th, 2014, 7:23pm

Quote:

That's a good example of why you were elected #1 Clown.

Could be, can you save the instructions for me? I might need a new t-shirt.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by kenbent6 on Feb 8^th, 2014, 9:55pm

You can get a new T-shirt at Clarksville.. [smiley=deadhorsebeat.gif]

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Feb 8^th, 2014, 9:56pm

jcsadowski wrote:

Quote:

That's a good example of why you were elected #1 Clown.

Could be, can you save the instructions for me? I might need a new t-shirt.

Guess I should have written: "I ordered a framekit, but all I got was this lousy tee shirt." :)

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by kenbent6 on Feb 9^th, 2014, 1:47pm

That has got to be the most expensive T- shirt I have ever seen!!!! [smiley=deadhorsebeat.gif]

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Feb 10^th, 2014, 1:28pm

;D :D ;) ;D :D ;) [smiley=dbanana.gif]

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Feb 19^th, 2014, 8:10am

Hard to believe there's a bike in this little box. Let the assembling begin.

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af339/jayg_2010/DSC00311_zps157236d3.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/jayg_2010/media/DSC00311_zps157236d3.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by CruzbikeChris on Feb 19^th, 2014, 9:14pm

What are you waiting for? You don't have time to post pics. Get that thing built so we can see it roll! [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Feb 19^th, 2014, 10:14pm

CruzbikeChris wrote:

What are you waiting for? You don't have time to post pics. Get that thing built so we can see it roll! [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]

Still staring at the box and contemplating the task I have ahead of me. :)

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Mar 10^th, 2014, 9:15pm

Completed my Silvio build, yesterday. This was my 11th recumbent build, and by far the most difficult. Some of the holes in the carbon fiber components were not drilled accurately and the rear suspension rubber dampener's diameter was too large. Corrected the problems in my shop. Two screws were missing and the supplied headset spacer was not thick enough. The front derailleur mount gave me the most trouble. Couldn't adjust the SRAM Force derailler's cage any closer than 10 mm from the 46T big ring on the crankset. Spent 15 hours fabricating and fitting various adapters, but was ultimately unsuccessful, as the derailleur's cage was too loose on the body to hold the required 1 to 3 mm cage-to-ring clearance when cable tension was added. Going to have to live with 10 mm clearance. Everything else fit OK. Been assembling it in my kitchen, during the cold weather. Rolled it out the door this morning. Many thanks to John S for donating a pair of Bacchetta X-Eyed caliper brakes for my project. They work great. Ready to ride (except for bag and tools), the bike weighs 25 lb 9 oz (11.6 kg). Not bad for a fully-suspended bike with an aluminum fork. Advertised bare weight is 11.5 to 12.5 kg, depending on selected components. Seat angle is 27 degrees.

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af339/jayg_2010/SilvioParts_zpsb04a46a5.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/jayg_2010/media/SilvioParts_zpsb04a46a5.jpg.html)

This is what you get for $2,280, including shipping from factory in Taiwan.

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af339/jayg_2010/DSC00321_zps75bf96f5.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/jayg_2010/media/DSC00321_zps75bf96f5.jpg.html)

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af339/jayg_2010/DSC00325_zps1690c140.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/jayg_2010/media/DSC00325_zps1690c140.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by TonyWard on Mar 10^th, 2014, 9:28pm

that is one sweet looking bike - when are you going to be adjusting it to a 45" xseam?

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Mar 10^th, 2014, 9:55pm

TonyWard wrote:

that is one sweet looking bike - when are you going to be adjusting it to a 45" xseam?

Uh, I think it's permanently fixed at 41.5". :)

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by CruzbikeChris on Mar 11^th, 2014, 8:14pm

[smiley=deadhorse3.gif]perfect for me.i want a ride!

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Mar 11^th, 2014, 9:11pm

CruzbikeChris wrote:

[smiley=deadhorse3.gif]perfect for me.i want a ride!

Any time Chris.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by bob wand on Mar 11^th, 2014, 10:08pm

Looks like tiller steering similar to the Barcroft I had.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Mar 11^th, 2014, 10:22pm

bob wand wrote:

Looks like tiller steering similar to the Barcroft I had.

Yeah, it's a tiller with a modified road bike handlebar.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 11^th, 2014, 8:09am

So, Jay -- give us some impressions... and I don't mean your best Dean Martin... 8-)

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Apr 11^th, 2014, 12:11pm

FlyingLaZBoy wrote:

So, Jay -- give us some impressions... and I don't mean your best Dean Martin... 8-)

;D. Paul, I just have 150 miles on the bike, so I'm not ready to declare it the fastest and best climbing bike I've ever owned. :) I've progressed from wobbling all over the WRL path, not clipped in, to sort of riding in a straight line, clipped in, to finally "getting" the bike and riding at decent speeds in a straight line. Still can't start from a stop (haven't been working on that). I do Fred Flintstone starts. That's why John S has named the bike "Fred". :D Working on making sharp turns clipped in and pedaling. Have successfully climbed Flag Pole Hill in the lowest gear combination (34/32) and have tried a short sprint to 25.7 mph. It's not affected by gusting side winds anywhere near like my Carbent is. Not ready to take it on a Clown ride, yet. After I take it on a number of those rides and average out my performances, compared to those of Bob M and Larry K, I'll be ready to compare the bike to my other performance bikes. It's fast downhill, like the typical aero recumbent bike. I'm hoping it's going to be a superior short hill climber.

If I had taken Cruzbike Chris up on his gracious offer to let me test ride his Cruzbike conversion, I might not have purchased the Silvio kit. I had doubts about the wisdom of my purchase when I first started riding the bike. When I finally "got" it, I had a pleasant sense of accomplishment. Cruising at 17 to 18 mph requires little hand/arm input to keep it going in a straight line. Sprinting and hill climbing requires high input to keep the front triangle straight. Part of the reason for me getting the bike was to get an upper body workout. So far, I like the bike. I also like the fact I haven't gone down on it, during the learning process.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by Denman on Apr 13^th, 2014, 9:36am

Looks really nice Jay.

Never tried a FWD bike. It seems a bit bizarre to turn the cranks with the steering, but that comes from having zero experience with it. It likely works a whole lot better then I would expect. Someday I've got to try one.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by rcko on Apr 13^th, 2014, 10:37am

Very nice looking Machine. Congratulations!

I like how it integrates road specific "hood" brake and shifter levers on the hybrid handle bar assembly. Wonder if this a set up that could be duplicated on a stick high racer like a Corsa, Rifle etc by using a tiller? Not sure how much tilt can be achieved from a tiller and or reach required to make it work.

The bottle mount location is very convenient as well.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Apr 13^th, 2014, 12:21pm

Denman wrote:

Thanks, John.

The Silvio offers a dual challenge to a first time high BB recumbent bike rider: Learning to ride both a high racer and a bike with a moving bottom bracket (MBB). There was a poster on BROL who reported he was falling down on his new Silvio almost every time he rode it. That concerned me, as I had already ordered my Silvio. I'm thinking he must have never ridden a high racer. IMO my extensive high racer experience gave me a leg up on the learning process. Still, I've come close to going down, during my continuing learning process.

The Silvio has been on my recumbent bucket list for a while. I've seen one (don't know if it's the same one) at WRL, maybe once or twice a year in past years, mixing it up with the roadies and flying down West Lawther at high speed. Also, I've read that they climb like a road bike. Those are the reasons I was attracted to the bike. The new design (2.0) with the 27 degree seat back angle and Vendetta-like tiller finally made me pull the trigger.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by Phantom Rider on Apr 13^th, 2014, 1:07pm

Jay

I think you made a wise decision by not taking up CruzbikeChris on his offer, I too was interested in the Silvio. After a few attempts on his conversion I quickly decided that was not for me and made my transition from the P-38 to my Rifle. After riding a couple thousand miles on the high racer i often wonder if I would have a different experience now.

Enjoy following your story, please keep the info coming and I'm very much intrigued by the silvio.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Apr 13^th, 2014, 4:05pm

rcko wrote:

Thank you.

Maybe a length-adjustable M5 or Metabike tiller in conjunction with Silvio handlebars would work on a stick bike. Tiller angle might be too great, though. Would be an interesting experiment. Riding the Silvio, I sure don't miss my shins hitting superman bars, like they do as a result of failed attempts to clip into stick bike pedals. :)

I really like the ease of operation of the SRAM Force brifters on the bike. Also, like that they give the rider something comfortable to hold onto, and the rider's fingers are at the ready to instantly apply the brakes when the need arises.

Yes the water bottle location is convenient. I've replaced the standard bottle cage I initially installed on the bike with a small, aero bottle/carbon cage combo (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/gear/product/airway.aero.water.bottle.cage.kit/562/56236/).

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Apr 13^th, 2014, 4:52pm

Phantom Rider wrote:

Joe, even with your current high racer experience, still think your initial impression of a Cruzbike might not be the best. However, I think you would definitely have a steep learning curve with your current experience, and take to it fairly rapidly. I started feeling real good about the bike when I could get it to go in a straight line and cruise at decent speeds without much hand/arm input. Took, maybe, 40 to 50 miles of riding for that to happen. It gets better and better, as the miles add up. A couple of weeks ago when it was warm, and I felt extra strong, climbed a steep, short hill faster than I've ever climbed it on one of my other recumbents. Hope that's going to be a trend, and not a one-time event. I have to grind it out on steep, long hills, because its lowest gear combination is 34T/32T. The bike was designed for road bike double cranksets. Some owners have installed triples by grinding tabs off chainrings and installing BB shims to shift the crankset off-center to the right.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Jul 27^th, 2014, 9:25pm

Did an 18.1 mph WRL lap on the Silvio, several weeks ago. But, topped that on the Musashi, last Tuesday, with a 18.8 mph lap. Decided to add an 100 mm extension to the Silvio's front chainstay to raise the bottom bracket several inches in a quest for additional speed. I expected the $90 extension to be an aluminum/carbon composite to match the carbon stay, but it turned out to be a relatively heavy aluminum weldment. Killed me to add another 5.5 ounces to the already heavy front triangle. The extension raised the bottom bracket to about the same position as a Vendetta's BB is relative to its seat bottom, and the boom's position is similar to that of the Vendetta's. May make a speed run on WRL's West Lawther speedway, tomorrow morning, to test the new configuration.

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af339/jayg_2010/DSC00395_zps31d43c17.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/jayg_2010/media/DSC00395_zps31d43c17.jpg.html)

All-aluminum chainstay extension.

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af339/jayg_2010/DSC00396_zps0f4c5a90.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/jayg_2010/media/DSC00396_zps0f4c5a90.jpg.html)

Original configuration.

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af339/jayg_2010/DSC00400_zpsd9b76cc4.jpg (http://s1021.photobucket.com/user/jayg_2010/media/DSC00400_zpsd9b76cc4.jpg.html)

Configuration, after installation of 100 mm chainstay extension.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Jul 28^th, 2014, 12:46pm

Ate a small breakfast at about 8:00 AM and headed for WRL, about 9:30 AM to test the new configuration. Rode counterclockwise to the Northeast corner of the lake to look for Kenny J. No Kenny, so headed back to Sunset Bay to adjust the bike's boom in about a 1/4". Headed out clockwise, feeling more power to the pedals as a result of the adjustment. Low energy, so I stop at the 7/11 for a big bottle of Starbucks Mocha Frappuccino and a bananna. Continued on to the West Lawther speedway. Waste of time, because my low energy persisted, and I was cruising at a very unimpressive 16 mph into a 10 mph headwind. Took the bike up to 28.4 mph on the run South of the Culture Center, but that was not impressive, because of the 10 mph tailwind. Rode a total of 16 miles. Will wait for a day when the Force is with me, and there is no headwind, before I conduct another test to see if raising the BB provides a perceptible speed increase. One thing I do notice about the bike is that it seems to climb better than my other bikes on WRL's short hills. Not too pleased with the 10-speed, 11T/32T cassette installed on the bike (too much cadence differential between cogs). May change to a 12T/27T, close-ratio cassette, like I have installed on my Musashi and Carbent.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by JimFPU on Jul 29^th, 2014, 8:16am

Your sluggish speeds and excuses were probably a result of the extra 5 ounces. I'm also suprised to see a water bottle mounted. You're carrying way too much stuff on that thing Jay.

On another scientific note: adding a surrey may help with all of the speed/weight issues. Talk to Kenny.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Jul 29^th, 2014, 5:07pm

JimFPU wrote:

You don't know how bummed out I was when I pulled the packaged extension out of my mail box and felt how heavy it was. The front triangle has a mind of its own when loading and unloading the bike from my van and handling it on the ground. It wants to swing around the head tube. The new, heavy extension just exaggerates the problem.

Today was a high energy day for me, so I might have been crowing about how fast a bike it is, if I had been riding it. :)

Had to break down and install a water bottle/holder combo. It's a midget one, though. :)

The only way the bike would ever have a surrey top on it would be if you got your hands on it. And, that's not gonna happen. :D

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by CruzbikeChris on Jul 30^th, 2014, 6:13pm

Way heavier then I thought it would be for sure. I still might want to try one, awaiting your analysis first though to see. I do see a lot of folks on CB forum bragging about it.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by jayg on Jul 30^th, 2014, 7:31pm

CruzbikeChris wrote:

Way heavier then I thought it would be for sure. I still might want to try one, awaiting your analysis first though to see. I do see a lot of folks on CB forum bragging about it.

Chris, I'm afflicted with weight weenie disease, so I might be more sensitive to the extension's weight than you would be. :)

IMO the extension makes the bike look better, because it positions the boom closer to horizontal.

I have to slide into the seat, now, like I had to on my Baron low racer. May remove the water bottle and cage from the boom and move the handlebar towards the BB to open up the cockpit a little.

Tomorrow would have been a good day to test the bike's speed capability with the higher bottom bracket, but rain is forecast, so I'll be riding my mud bike (Musashi). Maybe I'll get a chance to do it next week.

Title: Re: Cruzbike Silvio 2.0
Post by CruzbikeChris on Jul 30^th, 2014, 8:59pm

Yea Jay I'm not really concerned about weight like that with the old conversion, now that thing would flip around on me like no tomorrow. I will wait on your review.