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General Category >> Technical >> Chain cleaning newbie
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Message started by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 27^th, 2008, 4:52pm

Title: Chain cleaning newbie
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 27^th, 2008, 4:52pm

I confess -- even after all the riding I've done the last couple of years, I had never actually removed and cleaned my chains -- only replaced them about once a year. Consdering that the SXP requires two and 1/2 chains.... I typically lube well with RockNRoll frequently, but had never done the "degreaser in a plastic bottle" maneuver. With the rain klling my normal Sunday riding routine, I decided to try it, for once... This chain has been on the bike about three to four months / 1500+ miles, and I've been thinking about trying to do this more often to get better chain life.

I went to the auto parts store for some Simple Green degreaser and latex gloves, and found an empty plastic bottle. I put the bike up on the rack for ease of access, and at this point I discovered that there was no "master link" on this chain -- so to do it, I had to push out a pin. After hemming and hawing over this for a few minutes, I decided to go ahead -- got out my chain tool, and pressed out a pin -- However, the chain tool didn't completely press out the pin, but it was enough to separate the link.

[At this point, I remembered a passing comment that the tech at the LBS had said last time -- something about "non-reuseable pins" on this chain... and found the packet of three extra pins in my tool kit. More to come on this subject...]

I poured the degreaser (1:1 with water) into the jug, added the chain, and alternately let it soak or shook it around, for about 15 minutes. Fished it out with a spare spoke, and rinsed it with the garden hose -- most of the gunk was gone, but there were still areas visible. So I disposed of the first batch, and mixed up a second, repeating the soak/shake/rinse. This result looked better. Wanting to make sure I got the water out, I sprayed the chain with WD-40, wiped it down, then blew it with a hair dryer for good measure.

Letting the chain dry further, I took some time to wipe down the sprockets, and de-gunk the derailleur rollers with Q-tips-- there was QUITE a buildup of stuff on them...

Rethreading the chain through everything only took three tries :D to get it right, including finally positioning the derailleurs to the small/small rings for maximum slack. Then, putting the opened link back together with the partially-removed pin took some doing, but I got it in place.

Then I looked at the "replacement" pins -- they were different than I had expected, being twice as long as needed, one end pointed and one end concave, but with what appeared to be a "break line" in the center to snap off one end. What the heck, I pushed the new pin in, to the point where I could break off the excess from the other side -- when it occured to me what a strange concept this was -- here I was in my garage, with easy access to tools and pliers of various sorts, but how is one supposed to break off this pin OUT ON THE ROAD???

CAN SOMEBODY 'SPLAIN THIS TO ME???

I took vise grips and pliers, and got the excess snapped off, without damaging the link plates (somehow)... I then followed this with liberal application of RockNRoll lube, and wah-lah, finished (except for the cleanup)!!!!

Taking the bike out for a spin through the gears indicated no problems, so I must have done it right, mechanically speaking. Total time (not including pizza), about an hour and a half. And for grins, my total consumables count was:

~1 qt of degreaser;
Three pair of latex disposable gloves (exacerbated by eating pizza halfway through the process)
Seven paper towels and one page of newsprint
Eight Q-tips
One replacement chain pin

PB

Title: Re: Chain cleaning newbie
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 27^th, 2008, 5:04pm

Oh, and regarding chain wear...

When I was at the LBS here yesterday chatting with the owner, I asked him about his chain wear experiences... he said he had seen chains gone (past replacement point) in as little as 800 miles -- so I asked him to check mine. He took out a gauge, and it indicated to him that I should replace the chain (apparently showing "1% wear", but it was a tool I hadn't seen before).

However, when I measure links across a 12" length, I see about 1/16" of "stretch", not the 1/8" that would indicate 1% wear... (and that 1/16" in itself is disturbing, considering this chain has MAYBE 2000 miles tops on it....)

I guess solvent cleaning the chain more regularly may not be a bad idea, after all... Master link, here I come...

PB

Title: Re: Chain cleaning newbie
Post by Kwijybow on Apr 27^th, 2008, 6:26pm

Hi Paul,

Chain cleaning is almost up there with Helmet wearing and the now thankfully the somewhat dated tubulars vs clinchers religious debates of the past. In my riding experience and the recommendations of those that seem to know, chains do best if not degreased. The theory being that the original packing protectorant inside the chain is only completely removeable by degreasing and will never be replaced not matter how you lube it. I've found that by doing exactly what you were doing before with the Rock n Roll that I can get about 3000 miles per length of normal chain used. So for your bike I would expect 7500 miles before replacement. I get about 3000 out of my uprights, 7500 out of my recumbents, and thats far enough that I don't bother with the removal degreasing re-lubing cycle. However I'm definitely not able to say definitively that its the best way.

Take Care,
nelson.

Title: Re: Chain cleaning newbie
Post by Opus the Poet on Apr 27^th, 2008, 8:26pm

Paul, replace that chain now, before it destroys your cassette or chainrings. 12 1/8" indicates the chain is worn out and has taken the cassette and chainrings with it. 12 1/16" is almost worn out, but not enough to damage anything else. 2000 miles is not that bad for a chain that doesn't get cleaned and lubed every 100 miles. With regular and frequent cleaning and lubrication a recumbent chain can go as much as 10K miles. With any kind of luck, that should be a full season for you ;D

Title: Re: Chain cleaning newbie
Post by aikigreg on Apr 27^th, 2008, 8:37pm

forget replacement pins - use quick links!

Title: Re: Chain cleaning newbie
Post by Bud_Bent on Apr 27^th, 2008, 9:46pm

I found that chain wear checking tool on sale at Performance for $4.95. I bought one and checked all my chains. Only the tandem chain needed to be replaced.

Title: Re: Chain cleaning newbie
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 27^th, 2008, 9:57pm

And the controversy continues, I see!!! :-/

Opus the Poet wrote:

and Kwijybow writes:
In my riding experience and the recommendations of those that seem to know, chains do best if not degreased. .... I've found that by doing exactly what you were doing before with the Rock n Roll that I can get about 3000 miles per length of normal chain used. So for your bike I would expect 7500 miles before replacement.

Opus, every 100 miles means cleaning the chain every Sunday night... If I had a machine shop with a degreasing tank, etc, that might be a feasible routine to get into! Maybe I'll at least go to once a month...

Interesting counter-argument that Nelson makes -- to not degrease it at ALL!!!

Decisions, decisions!!!!! :D :-? :-/ What are others' experiences?

Title: Re: Chain cleaning newbie
Post by aikigreg on Apr 27^th, 2008, 10:58pm

not degreasing would lead to a horrible amount of crap on my bike and leg, I would think. I'd prefer to by chain more often than to have my leg all gunked up.

Title: Re: Chain cleaning newbie
Post by Kwijybow on Apr 28^th, 2008, 3:25pm

I don't like a dirty chain either, but I've found that Rock n Roll cleans it pretty good. Every 250-500 miles I do the clean-lube instructions on the bottle, and it stays pretty clean. Usually a good rain ride will require relubing afterwards, regardless of mileage. It takes just a couple of minutes. Greg I agree with you on the SRAM power links, mucho better than breaking the chain with a tool. The standard I've heard for chain replacement is 1/8" past 12" for 12 links. To eliminate error in measurement I also picked up one of the little chain tools that Bud mentions above the previous time he mentioned it. Highly recommended.

I got pretty lucky last time I replaced the Bacchetta chain, I caught some SRAM PC951 (?) chains on sale for $8 dollars and picked up 3 for not much more than 1 usually is.

Take Care,
Nelson.

Title: Re: Chain cleaning newbie
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 28^th, 2008, 4:29pm

Just fer grins I called PCF and asked 'em to look up when I replaced the chain -- turns out it was Thanksgiving, so this chain's got 5 months and ~2200 miles on it so far...

Title: Re: Chain cleaning newbie
Post by catroad254 on Apr 28^th, 2008, 8:31pm

I keep the outside of the chain wiped doown to keep gunk off of the legs, etc. but I never degrease the chain. I add lube every couple of months or after riding in the rain. My current chain is over 2000 miles with no appreciable wear. YMMV.

Ken

Title: Re: Chain cleaning newbie
Post by Opus the Poet on Apr 28^th, 2008, 8:33pm

FlyingLaZBoy wrote:

And the controversy continues, I see!!! :-/

[quote author=Opus the Poet link=1209333144/0#3 date=1209346001]Paul, replace that chain now, before it destroys your cassette or chainrings. 12 1/8" indicates the chain is worn out and has taken the cassette and chainrings with it. 12 1/16" is almost worn out, but not enough to damage anything else. 2000 miles is not that bad for a chain that doesn't get cleaned and lubed every 100 miles. With regular and frequent cleaning and lubrication a recumbent chain can go as much as 10K miles. With any kind of luck, that should be a full season for you ;D

Title: Re: Chain cleaning newbie
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 29^th, 2008, 6:03pm

I bought one of the Spin Doctor chain wear checkers, and it indicates that I'm still below 0.75% -- so I'm not going to change it out... just yet. But when I do, it'll be with the SRAM series with the master link... and Performance appears to have the 971 chain for about $24 each, vs. $35 list...

Title: Re: Chain cleaning newbie
Post by bikerteam on May 7^th, 2008, 6:43am

Paul (et all)...

Here's a great internet site I've used for years regarding "home mechanical". It was loads of pictures, and easy to follow directions:
http://www.jimlangley.net/wrench/wrench.html

Specific to checking chain stretch, and cleaning the drive chain:
http://www.jimlangley.net/wrench/cleandrivetrain.htm

As you'll see, there is no need to spend $$ on a chain checker. All you need is a ruler and a good set of reading glasses (if you're as old as I am) ;)