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Message started by BikeEB on Apr 21^st, 2013, 8:57pm

Title: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by BikeEB on Apr 21^st, 2013, 8:57pm

I am a proud owner of a new xl oval tube Xstream and am wondering how others with the bike are doing with theirs. Since I am a fairly large guy: 6'5", 260, I am appreciating the extra length of the frame so I don't have to have the seat all the way back and can lay back nicely with the hoagie seat. But now, with about 300 miles on the bike am sort of wishing I'd tried out the sling mesh first. Is it more comfortable than the hoagie? I went with the hoagie for it's perceived wind advantage because what Kansas lacks in hills it more than makes up for with wind. I am transitioning from a standard size '09 Xstream. The new bike kind of dwarfs the old one doesn't it? Thanks for any feedback.

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by MrOverdressed on Apr 21^st, 2013, 9:55pm

Im very curious about your XL XStream. I had a standard frame XStream with the standard hoggie seat. I sold the bike to Jay when I need some quick cash to pay my property taxes.
Is your seat also and extra long seat?
Im 6"2 with a 45" x-seam. I could not get comfortable on the standard hoggie seat because I was too tall for it. I recommend getting a head reat. When you lay back the seat its nice to have your head supported. Some guys dont like head rests because they bounce your head around a little.

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by BikeEB on Apr 22^nd, 2013, 12:33am

I paid an extra $50 to get the xl hoagie seat. My issue with the seat has more to do with my left hip and it's comfort. I have added another layer of foam between the mesh and the open cell foam cover, but it's still an issue. I'm not looking forward to several upcoming 70-100 mile rides.

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by Bud_Bent on Apr 22^nd, 2013, 7:42am

I've run both a Hoagie and Sling Mesh seat on my Xstream. The bottom bracket has been moved higher on the new Xstreams though, so a direct comparison between my old one and a new one isn't really valid. On mine, I found my body position to be too open to suit me with the Hoagie reclined a lot, a problem that would likely be less so on a new Xstream.

All that said, as a general rule, with a very reclined seat position, Euro style seats like the Hoagie are more comfortable, while with a mesh seat like the Sling Mesh, a more upright seat position works better. Recumbent seating is a very personal thing, though, and what works for one person won't necessarily work for the next. I suggest trying an extremely reclined position with the Hoagie before you give up on it, though. The fact that it bothers your hip suggests to me that you don't have it reclined enough. It should be reclined so much that your weight is spread out all along your back, and not mostly on your hip. Like I said though, recumbent seating is a very personal thing. It may take a lot of experimenting to find what works best for you. Good luck.

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 22^nd, 2013, 1:53pm

BikeEB wrote:

I'm also enjoying the XL frame and the XL Hoagie seat... I would daresay that the more upright seating position of the Slingmesh would not help with a hip problem - but I suppose that depends upon what's causing it. However, if you've cut your riser down to lower the crossbar height, you may have a knee clearance issue with the SM seat -- in a more "closed" seating position, your knees come up a bit higher. The only way I would classify it as "more comfortable" than the Hoagie is perhaps the wider mesh back support and a more upright position being easier on the neck -- but the Hoagie doesn't bother me at all, really (although I did put a piece of foam in to reduce the lumbar curvature).

I've been putting my Hoagie back to pinhole #3, and added an ADEM headrest for occasional resting against. With that much recline, I HAD to cut a couple inches off the riser to drop the bars.

Got any photos of you and the bike?

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by BikeEB on Apr 22^nd, 2013, 6:21pm

I am at pinhole #2 which puts the bottom of the zip tie in the middle of the seat about 1/4" above the tire. My extra height and leg length pretty much determines where the seat has to be on the top tube and being able to clear the tire limits the rake.

I suppose if I went to shorter cranks, I could get more rake, but that seems like a radical step for little gain.

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 22^nd, 2013, 7:02pm

Understood... so we're probably at similar recline angles, given the clamp being further back for you. I put the SM seat on mine this evening, and while I could get somewhat similiar recline angle, the fixturing where it attaches to the seat clamp appears to put the seatpad an inch or two higher than where it is on the Hoagie -- again, causing the legs to be somewhat closer to the handlebars.

However, they may have modified the seatclamp attachment on the SM seat since 2010 when I got my prior bike -- they did so on the Hoagie, lowering it a bit -- so a new SM seat may not have the issue. It is definitely a comfortable support for the back, like the standard RANS seatback.

The other thing about the SM seat is that, for a similar recline, the seat isn't going to support your "push" (i.e., when climbing) the same as the Hoagie -- you may feel you're sliding up the seatback.

Since it sounds like you're up in Kansas, a trip to the factory could well be in order, to try the current SM seat for yourself!!! Randy may also be able to help you with the hip discomfort issue. Give him a call....

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by Bud_Bent on Apr 22^nd, 2013, 9:29pm

BikeEB wrote:

I am at pinhole #2 which puts the bottom of the zip tie in the middle of the seat about 1/4" above the tire.

Wow, sounds like you're not going to get more recline. Trying out a Sling Mesh sounds like a worthwhile project.

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by BikeEB on Apr 23^rd, 2013, 11:13pm

Thanks everybody for your helpful comments! It's great to have this resource available-I don't feel so alone now.

Bruce Rowe

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 24^th, 2013, 10:34am

Here are some pics I took of the two seats on my Xstream, not moving the seatclamp. I put the SM seat on, and could get it to pinhole #10 before bottoming out on the struts -- so I got CLOSE to the same seatback angle.

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/xshoagie1.png (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/xshoagie1.png.html)

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/XSDSMAngle1.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/XSDSMAngle1.jpg.html)

However, as mentioned before, the 2009 SM seat puts you about 2" higher than the Hoagie does (which they may have changed since). I drew the line where you would theoretically "bottom out", so to speak [smiley=evil.gif], and had the marked box behind as a height reference.

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/hoaght.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/hoaght.jpg.html)

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/xsSMHt.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/xsSMHt.jpg.html)

This difference in height is what contributes to your knees being a bit higher, regarding handlebar clearance.

Hip "open" angle is about 145 degrees in both situations. I moved the baseline up to intersect approximately where the hip joint would be in both cases -- so I'm not sure a SM seat is going to help your hip discomfort issue if it's related to angle.

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/XSDSMhipAngle1.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/XSDSMhipAngle1.jpg.html)

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pbrown8js/xshoagiehipangle1.png (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/pbrown8js/media/xshoagiehipangle1.png.html)

Again, however, the SM seat is not going to give you the same upper back support in "push" mode -- the Hoagie top angles in at about 35-40 degrees vs. the back, and the SM seat only angles in at about 20 degrees - plus, it's mesh, not steel frame.

But it's still worth trying if you can get over to Hays! Riding comfort is a very subjective thing, no?

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 24^th, 2013, 10:39am

By the way, since you're using max recline on the Hoagie, check to see if the thick Zipties on the Hoagie are rubbing against your main tube, behind the seatclamp. If they are, I'd suggest replacing them with two smaller ones (each), and putting some clear protective tape on your frame right there.

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by Rat Rider on Apr 25^th, 2013, 12:28am

BikeEB wrote:

The sling mesh seat may be the best recumbent seat ever made. It is more comfortable than all other seats, IMO - hang whatever wind advantage, real or perceived. I ESPECIALLY like it on the Xstream. Personally, I wouldn't ride another seat on that bike, despite Paul's very convincing trigonometry. [smiley=grin.gif]

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 25^th, 2013, 9:35am

Rat Rider wrote:

The sling mesh seat may be the best recumbent seat ever made. It is more comfortable than all other seats, IMO - hang whatever wind advantage, real or perceived.

Oh, I agree totally... supremely comfortable, the only exception being if the seatpad side supports poke your thighs in certain situations (sitting up at a stop).

I may just wind up keeping the old Xstream, using the SM seat along with 1.75" tires, to use it as a gravel/trail/winter bike...

PB

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 25^th, 2013, 9:45am

Partially thanks to Bruce's post, I dropped down to pinhole #2 on the seat strut as a test... still had room above the rear tire, but definitely needed more headrest support -- and the handlebar was just to darned high in my line of vision. :-/

Sooooooo..... I dismantled the bars, and cut another inch off the riser bottom section (cutting a new relief slot as well)... ::) Seems to work pretty nicely! Don't know if I'll stay at that recline, but it at least makes it feasible.

Paul

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by BikeEB on Apr 25^th, 2013, 11:20am

You are a relatively short guy (compared to me) that went to the larger frame to achieve more reclination. I went to the larger frame to distribute my weight better (I was breaking spokes on the back) and try to weight the front wheel a little more. My seat bracket is 10 1/2" from the first weld going forward. Your's looks like it is about 3". There really is no comparison. I have cut off the two zip ties on the seat that are closest to the tire and have moved the seat struts down to one of the holes near the end of the frame for a little more support.
Ironically, I had ordered both seats with the bike, but the bike had so many issues that had to be resolved before I could take delivery that the sling mesh was never tried out and I just kind of forgot about it. The bike shop that had it was 90 miles away, so not very convenient to drop in on.
Maybe you could do all that math again, but this time move your bracket back to my measurement: The front edge of the bracket is 10 1/2" to the middle of the main frame tube weld, measured on the side, to see what I'm dealing with?

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by Rat Rider on Apr 25^th, 2013, 12:22pm

FlyingLaZBoy wrote:

[quote author=Rat Rider link=1366595833/0#11 date=1366867708]

The sling mesh seat may be the best recumbent seat ever made. It is more comfortable than all other seats, IMO - hang whatever wind advantage, real or perceived.

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by Bud_Bent on Apr 25^th, 2013, 6:15pm

And the new Xstreams have a higher bottom bracket, which can't help but make a difference in how they handle each seat, so I don't think comparisons between seats on the old style Xstreams are valid for new ones.

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 25^th, 2013, 11:46pm

... adding to the knee clearance issue... I had forgotten about that!

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by Bud_Bent on Apr 26^th, 2013, 7:30am

I took special notice of the bottom bracket height/seat height change because that's what made the Hoagie, and even my Euromesh, which I borrowed from the Corsa, not work for me on my old style Xstream. That was why I traded for a Sling Mesh seat. Small changes in riding position can make a big difference in comfort for some of us.

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by MrOverdressed on Apr 27^th, 2013, 5:07pm

Bud does the Sling Mesh seat sit higher than the Hoggie Seat Is that why you preferred it?
:)
Terry

Bud_Bent wrote:

Title: Re: Oval tube Xstreams
Post by Bud_Bent on Apr 28^th, 2013, 9:36pm

MrOverdressed wrote:

Bud does the Sling Mesh seat sit higher than the Hoggie Seat Is that why you preferred it?
:)
Terry

I don't know if it sits higher. It probably does, at least a little. But that's not why I switched to it. Like all mesh seats, it's more suitable for sitting more upright. A Hoagie (or Euromesh, carbon, or any other Euro style seat, for that matter) only works for me if I can use it really reclined. Really reclined never worked well for me on the Xstream because it left me with too open a body position. With the higher bottom bracket on the new Xstreams, that might not be the case, but on mine, I wanted a more upright seating position to close my body position, so I switched to a Sling Mesh.

There are obviously people who can tolerate a really open body position (laid straight out, not bent at the waist), but I'm plainly not one of them. That seems to be another of those individual things that each of us has to figure out for ourself.