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Message started by goatstick on Oct 1^st, 2009, 9:22pm

Title: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by goatstick on Oct 1^st, 2009, 9:22pm

We lost a tandem couple just two miles from my house this morning. I was headed out to ride into town when it happened. Watched all the emergency vehicles scream by. Witnesses said the driver veered off the road before he reached the tandem couple and then veered over again and hit them. No charges filed... Bexar County shows yet again that it's perfectly fine to kill someone as long as you are in a motor vehicle and they are on a bicycle. A guy we know drove up on the site just after it happened and described the situation to us at the bike shop, though I can't relate it here. If you look at the damage to the front and side of the truck in the pic at the url above, you can imagine. This is on the section of road that TxDOT destroyed recently when they turned it back into a 4-lane divided gravel path.

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/Couple-killed-when-truck-slams-into-drags-bicycle/go3yQ221t0iNLcWTSJZ5Bg.cspx

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by Opus the Poet on Oct 2^nd, 2009, 12:32am

Cr@p, another one I have to do a write up on without proper information :'( and so soon after McQuinne was killed out on I20. Curse Gov. Goodhair for vetoing the vulnerable road users law, this would have been a crime instead of "Ooopsie! I hit a bike."

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by goatstick on Oct 2^nd, 2009, 10:11am

What kind of writeup are you doing? What info do you need?

As to the 3-foot law, I'm a little mixed about that one. On one hand, it sounds good, but there's almost no way it would be enforced, especially with the current behavior of the law enforcement community locally. I have never heard of a traffic incident involving a bicycle resulting in any citation for the driver. Of all the ones I know about 1st hand, the driver committed several offenses that should have resulted in citations even if there was no 'crash'. I've had local cops try to 'accidently' kill me, run me off the road, pull me over for invented offenses (camera running stopped them), etc.

Florida has the 3-foot law and when I rode there last year I was clipped *twice* within 3 days when I was *riding on the shoulder*. I couldn't see that the law had had any effect on the drivers there and I'd be surprised if it had much here.

Bexar Co (and the State of Tx in general through Perry) is run by crooked developers. They have their criminal hands in everything and they hate bicyclists and want them off the roads. TxDOT has stated in local public meetings that they are purposefully trying to force bicyclists off of public roads (specifically they stated that was the reason for removing shoulders on several roads). They have been destroying roads and shoulders all over the state and they have been targeting popular cycling routes here in Bexar Co.

Why is the Tx Bicycle coalition so vehemently against trying to preserve Tx roads and shoulders? IMO, that is far more important an issue than the 3ft rule. If you have no roads to ride on, what good is having a 3ft clearance (3ft isn't nearly enough on a 70mph road anyway).

The responsibility for preserving roads for cycling belongs to all of us who cycle. A guy pulled up to the bike shop yesterday complaining about how TxDOT had destroyed this very section of Hwy 16 so that he could no longer ride it. I fairly gently explained the background and history related to it and in the end he said something like "Good luck with your task" as he left. I don't know if he heard me or not but I replied "It's *your* task now, not mine."

We like to complain about boulder-seal, but precisely how many of us have actually done anything about it? Nothing will be done as long as I'm the only one trying to stop it. It can be stopped. Your county simply needs to have the willpower to do it. Many counties in Tx have already done so.

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by kingjason on Oct 2^nd, 2009, 2:50pm

Bet he was speeding and on his cell phone. I hope they pull the cell records.

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by Opus the Poet on Oct 2^nd, 2009, 4:48pm

I have a blog I do on bicycle safety, that's where the writeup goes (went) http://opusthepoet.wordpress.com
So far I have read reports about close to 5000 bike wrecks around the world in the various places I have kept the blog. [smiley=twitchy.gif] [smiley=puking.gif] I put my opinions (about a lot of things) on the blog where people that want to can read them, and not on other places so that people that don't want to don't have to read them. [smiley=dankk2.gif] They are after all opinions not facts [smiley=deadhorsebeat.gif] [smiley=deadhorse3.gif] [smiley=deadhorsebeat.gif]

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by goatstick on Oct 2^nd, 2009, 5:01pm

We're trying to determine more of the facts and I'll report back to you if/when we find more.

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by goatstick on Oct 7^th, 2009, 3:47pm

Slight update: The county prosecutor's office is apparently going after this one finally so stay tuned for a number of charges likely to be filed.

With the historical slant of the county prosecutors office, I personally suspect what affected this was, unfortunately, a woman getting killed.

At the funeral service last night several hundred cyclists lined up across the street so as not to disturb the service yet to try to honor the couple. I heard the parents of the couple shook the hands of each of the cyclists.

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Oct 7^th, 2009, 4:01pm

kingjason wrote:

Bet he was speeding and on his cell phone. I hope they pull the cell records.

From a follow-up article:

"According to deputies, even if the driver had been texting or using his cell phone, that would not be enough to file charges against him. The deputies said until the laws are changed, there is nothing they can do. "

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by goatstick on Oct 7^th, 2009, 5:23pm

Bexar Co sheriff's officers have a long history of being very biased against cyclists. I've had them threaten to push me off the road 3 times with their cruisers, one pulled out directly in front of me and stopped sideways in the middle to the road in an obvious effort to get me to t-bone him, and twice threaten me with totally invented charges until they finally saw the camera that was logging the entire event. So don't hold your breath about them doing anything. The Co prosecutor is apparently going after this case, for a change, though. I can't say anything more at this time. Please wait a bit. More info to come soon.

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by kingjason on Oct 7^th, 2009, 8:09pm

Reckless Driving, criminal negligent homicide, I mean how many laws do they want? I would say driving to fast, texting(or talking), and swerving into a lane and killing two people would qualify as criminal negligent homicide. He should have known his actions could have caused SBI or accidental death. I guarantee you thats how I would wright it up if all three came into play. Even texting and running them down without the speeding would qualify. Same ole song and dance unitl someones relative or loved one thats higher up the food chain gets killed. File it, take him to jail, and let the courts figure it out.

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by evblazer on Oct 8^th, 2009, 8:41am

When I was by the courthouse at the TTT the sheriff and I watched someone blow the stop sign and then drive on the wrong side of the road until he almost rode headlong into another car and then corrected himself all the while swerving around the road. I wasn't sure if he was going to call it in or go so I kinda asked him to go and not to worry about directing traffic since the car was heading right along the course.
He got back a few minutes later and mentioned that they guys excuse was he was texting and that was that. There isn't a rule against texting so it wasn't criminally negligent based on the laws only stupid and wreckless. So if it was reckless driving that doesn't mean much here.

"Sec. 545.401. RECKLESS DRIVING; OFFENSE. (a) A person commits an offense if the person drives a vehicle in wilful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property.

(b) An offense under this section is a misdemeanor punishable by:

(1) a fine not to exceed $200;

(2) confinement in county jail for not more than 30 days; or

(3) both the fine and the confinement.

(c) Notwithstanding Section 542.001, this section applies to:

(1) a private access way or parking area provided for a client or patron by a business, other than a private residential property or the property of a garage or parking lot for which a charge is made for the storing or parking of motor vehicles; and

(2) a highway or other public place.

(d) Notwithstanding Section 542.004, this section applies to a person, a team, or motor vehicles and other equipment engaged in work on a highway surface."

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by kingjason on Oct 8^th, 2009, 4:03pm

19.04. MANSLAUGHTER. (a) A person commits an offense
if he recklessly causes the death of an individual.
(b) An offense under this section is a felony of the second
degree.

§ 19.05. CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE. (a) A person
commits an offense if he causes the death of an individual by
criminal negligence.
(b) An offense under this section is a state jail felony.

I dont have my big book in front of me but I think either of these fits. Was originally designed for such things as Alcohol and car crashes but has been modified to fit others. At the worst grand jury it and see where it goes.

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by evblazer on Oct 8^th, 2009, 5:02pm

I'd think it should but in the car v bike world it is rare that I have seen anything happen unless the driver was drunk but hopefully this can be an exception or the start of changing that.
I would hope if they can prove reckless driving and it resulted directly in someones death then it would fill the "a person commits an offense" portion and pick your poison manslaughter or homicide (I saw no vehicular homicide in tx though? *shrug*). If you can't use reckless driving as a step then texting itself isn't an offence because it isn't illegal. My only experience with the law is corresponding with the gov't over my companies hiring/termination practices and they make up whatever they want to go from one thing to the other.

Way back when I first started driving it was beat into my head that whether it was my fault or not if I killed someone I was doomed and not just from guilt.

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by Bud_Bent on Oct 8^th, 2009, 7:39pm

Lawyers who are cyclists will tell you, it's a hard sell to a jury, trying to convict a cyclist hitting driver of anything. The jury members are all drivers, and sympathize with the driver, thinking that they could have easily done the same thing.

You see it elsewhere, too. At a party not that long ago, someone was talking about how a kid on the street got hit by a driver. Everyone joined in in badmouthing both the kid and the kid's mother for letting the kid ride in the street. They all sympathized with the driver. I had to bite my tongue. To my thinking, kids are expected to dart out in front of cars, both on foot and on a bicycle, and you should be driving carefully enough in a residential neighborhood to be able to stop, even if a kid does dart out in front of you unexpectedly. That's what kids DO!

But, people in this country, and especially in this part of it, think they have a right to blast down every road and run over anything that gets in their way. No bicycle passing or texting laws are going to be enough to change that. Law enforcement can't begin to enforce the traffic laws we already have. The average driver breaks a traffic law every few seconds on the road. It will take much more than a few laws to overhaul everyone's attitude. I don't expect it to happen any time soon.

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by goatstick on Oct 8^th, 2009, 9:19pm

Amen. That's why it is important that we not pass up opportunities to gently, kindly (when possible) work to educate people that unlike Motor Vehicle drivers, cyclists have the right to travel on public roads and that roads are for people, not Motor Vehicles.

I always remind people "what if it had been a child who was in the road?" If you can't safely control your vehicle enough to avoid those kinds of circumstances, you are driving way too fast and way over your head.

If some of you doubt what Bud said about the average driver, ride with an officer who knows the laws. It will astonish you. That's part of why I doubt the 3 foot proposed law would have much of any effect. It didn't appear to in Florida to me and I doubt it will here. What does have an effect is having more female riders on the road. I saw this in Austin the last few years as female ridership increased, in Florida and traveling with my daughter.

Nevertheless, I think this case will be different. As I said, I think having a female killed made the difference with the Co prosecutor. I can't believe I am 'defending' them... :^( but the word is they are pulling out the stops on this one.

Good read: "Asphalt Nation: How the Automobile Took Over America and How We Can Take It Back"

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by kingjason on Oct 8^th, 2009, 9:34pm

You are right texting is not against the law. Butttt I am sure you have heard many times that a vehicle is considered a deadly weapon in the right circumstances. The combinaion of a 3500 lb vehicle and someone texting should be enough to prove up the above. It always depends on the officers involved. I have worked around 1000 accidents and I am telling you that if my investigation showed someone was texting and ran over a pedestrian or cyclist I would file the above. All you have to ask yourself is does it fit. It fits perfectly. All the elements of the offense are met. I ran this idea by a few others in my department and we all agreed it is anough to send it up. I absolutly hate people that drive and talk on cell phones. We can also prove up how it limits your range of movement, and focus on what you are doing. Peoples comparison of eating and listening to the radio are a joke. You know we got along for many many years with out having phones in the cars. Nothing is that important. Not to mention if it is that important you can pull off the road. You know things change all the time and so do the laws. It wasnt so long ago in Dallas a woman hit and drug a kid two blocks while talking on her cell. The only reason she stopped was people were chasing her to get her to stop.

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by goatstick on Oct 8^th, 2009, 11:39pm

We aren't talking about 'should' here. We are talking probabilities and especially in this county, the probability would normally be well down below the teens of any criminal charges being filed. A few years ago a driver dropped something like a cup (I can't remember what) on the floor of his pickup, swerved onto the wide shoulder and killed a male cyclist less than 4 miles down the road from here. No charges ever filed. I have never heard of any incident between a motor vehicle and a bicycle where the driver was a fault and any charges were filed and we see some doozies.

A friend was riding to work on the 1605 access road a few years ago when a Hummer driver with her sister as a passenger took the turnaround under the underpass at high speed then cut directly across three lanes of traffic to enter the parking lot on the corner of the intersection. My friend t-boned the Hummer right in the passenger door at ~25mph, caving the door in. The sister stated to the cop that arrived at the scene that it was her sister's fault, that she had screamed to her about the cyclist and she still did nothing to prevent the crash. Close to 20 witnesses *driving automobiles* tried to get the cop to cite the driver also but he refused. The internal rumor we hear is that officials want to intentionally bias the auto-bicycle statistics to show that cyclists are always at fault.

Event some of the tv stations here are heavily biased against cyclists. We had a helicopter following us on a ride one day. I had a suspicion... As we stopped at a stop sign, I was in front and said to the others that we might want to make a point of stopping for the news chopper, so we did. What did we see on the news that night? An edited version that cut out the part where we stopped. Gotta make that news...

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by goatstick on Nov 1^st, 2009, 7:14pm

goatstick wrote:

The Co prosecutor is apparently going after this case, for a change, though. I can't say anything more at this time. Please wait a bit. More info to come soon.

We were told that a group of cyclists who work for the co. prosecutor's office was going after this guy. Apparently the effort died. SOP for our crooked co prosecutor.

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by bent_eagle on Nov 3^rd, 2009, 11:03pm

I am becoming more and more aggressive about taking the lane. I mean the exact center of the lane. It's amazing how much more respect you get from drivers when you do that. Even somebody texting might see me in the center of the lane. If I'm on the shoulder, they treat me like debris.

Title: Re: Tandem riders killed on Hwy 16
Post by goatstick on Nov 4^th, 2009, 2:31am

Yeah. If it's a wide rideable shoulder I'll usually ride to the left side of it, otherwise I take the lane. I learned that the hard way riding across the se usa and back. The old symmetry rule - motor vehicles tend to give you as much room to your left as you give yourself on the right, even if you hear a lot of horns complaining.

With txdot intentionally destroying shoulders to try to force cyclists off of roads, it's becoming a requirement to take the lane though. It's really problematic when there is what looks like a wide shoulder but isn't rideable. That's when things get a bit iffy. Either give me a wide *rideable* shoulder or none at all. The stretch of Hwy 16 where the couple was mowed down is like that now. Used to be a lot of cyclists riding the shoulders all the time as it was the primary cycling route around here for several decades. The only ones riding it anymore are us three commuters that have to ride in the lane now. Talk about honking horns... :^) It's almost continuous. The Airzounds on the trike gets a lot of use now as a result, so that's kinda fun.

It's is a good example of what txdot wants to do and will be successful at if we don't begin to fight back. Riding across Texas last year and this, we saw first-hand the rideable roads quickly disappearing. At the rate txdot is going, it wouldn't take more than a few years for them to put an end to pretty much all distance cycling in the state.

As to phones, on the trips, especially in affluent areas, we would watch cars approaching us from often over a mile away. They wouldn't change lanes as they approached, they would just start slowing down in our lane even when there was no traffic preventing them from changing lanes. Baffled me until we realized they were on their cell phones... Not enough brain power to talk/text and look to see if they needed to change lanes to pass us. At least they saw us though.