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Message started by evblazer on May 11^th, 2009, 7:03pm

Title: Another tire bites the dust
Post by evblazer on May 11^th, 2009, 7:03pm

So 2 minutes into my ride home tonight and thump thump thump
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_GIFgiCQnK-8/Sgi4bnC0ljI/AAAAAAAAAbg/DAaBwEz19a0/s800/TireBlowout.jpg

Ripped the sidewall with plenty of life on the tread area :( About 3600 miles on the tires. Oh well sat in front of the VZ building and put on my spare and then headed off to a nice ride home. Come to think of it same exact failure on my Giro 26 with the same type of tires with probably close to the same mileage. [smiley=embarassed.gif]

Better then this morning and all the grackels flying at like 3ft off the ground right across my path.. Weird birds.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by evblazer on May 11^th, 2009, 8:34pm

Well I have one spare left that I'll keep on the bike but am I the only one with constant sidewall failures and it is just based on overloading the tires or just bad luck? I've had the same problem with vredstien, 2 different schwalbes and primos since I've been riding bent in TX.
I haven't used levers on the tires so it isn't that. They were at 85 or 95psi max so I wasn't pumping them up too hard.
Other then the sidewalls giving out they have been great tires and they do last 3500+ miles before it happens..

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by aikigreg on May 11^th, 2009, 8:36pm

perhaps they are too soft and should be pumped up more? What brand are they?

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by evblazer on May 11^th, 2009, 9:18pm

Schwalbe Kojaks 406x1.35

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by aikigreg on May 11^th, 2009, 9:34pm

Send em back to schwalbe. That makes absolutely no sense for tires of that size to get those sorts of cuts. What's max inflation, 110?

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by Kwijybow on May 11^th, 2009, 9:37pm

What pressure do you run them at. In my experience I have fewer flats but more sidewall failures with higher pressures, rocks and such tend cut abrade the sidewalls instead of causing punctures, and the high pressure just plain wears the tires out structurally. I haven't found that high priced tires last any better or are any more free of defects, you just get better rolling resistance usually. If you got over 3000 miles out of a rear tire you beating my average! The other sidewall failure issue can occur quickly if anything (mud, dirt, or the brake pad itself) at all rubs the tire and causes a week spot near the bead. It doesn't have to happen long or cause an immediate failure, but it will cause it fail early at some point.

Take care,
Nelson.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by evblazer on May 11^th, 2009, 9:50pm

I usually run them 85-90psi. The range on the sidewall is 65-95psi.

I'll check the brakes again but they were pretty far from the tire and the hydros go straight in and out rather then pivot.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by Kwijybow on May 11^th, 2009, 10:24pm

Well I recently had a Stelvio succumb to a manufacturing defect after 2000 miles. I kinda knew it had funny spot but chose to ignore it until it just exploded. Mine was almost in the center of the tire. I think I stress mine by riding every day as well. I pump my tires up to the max several times per week. I think the tire manufacturers generally get away with crappy quality control because so few people actually ride their bikes enough to wear out a set of tires or expose the problems.

Most likely the best manufactured tires I've ever had are the ones from Grand Bois. But they generally don't come in recumbent friendly sizes.
Almost every other brand has given me some kinda premature failure of some kind. For me Continentals and Michelin brands have maybe come in a distant second. The Vittorias I got from Steve seem to be doing pretty well so far. Pretty awful luck with Specialized and Kendas, and now I'm no longer so keen on Scwalbe either.

I bought some cheapie Metro K's from Performance (I figured they are cheap so if they fail early I not out much money), and although they seem pretty well made, and so far so good flat wise, they are quite a bit slower than the Stelvios they replaced. I think Panaracer makes the performance tires, and my panaracer Col de la Vie's have been really good tires also, if a bit sluggish.

Take care,
Nelson.

Take Care,
Nelson.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by evblazer on May 11^th, 2009, 11:10pm

Well I yanked the aerotrunk, rack and ortleib adapter off.
7lbs
Put on the aeropod
~2lbs
So I can't bring home the laptop from work but at least it won't be flapping around behind my head supported from the bottom.

I also cleaned out all the other bags and found
4 glue patch kits, 2 glueless patchkits
40 8" zipties and 40 4" zip ties
A head set bearing - my wifes had exploded on a ride so I was carrying an extra around.
6 Tubes (one I used today)
Kwik tire lever which I have never used

Guess I never cleaned up from my 400k over prep and added my normal commuter stuff back in.
So.. My bike is another 2 lbs lighter from some more stuff removed (only kept a half dozen zip ties, 2 tubes and 1 fresh patch kit). Maybe that'll help with the tire :)

So my bike lost 7 lbs overall and a floppy because it was mounted from the bottom aerotrunk.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by Kwijybow on May 12^th, 2009, 8:45am

One reason I don't want a bag too big! Man I think 7 Pounds of redundant spares might be a little too much! ;)

I think you just need to buy a folding bike and slip it in there and be done with it!

Anyway, if you ever discover a tire that combines great mileage, rolls well, is light, is cheap, and puncture resistant please let us know. I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist! Have you ever tried those Maxxis hookworks on one of your 20" wheelsets? I had them on a RANS Vivo I owned for awhile, those things were well nigh industructable. I think they weighed as much as a heavy duty 26" tire, like an inch of rubber between the air and the road! Maybe you want something like that for your commute, you don't seem to be to be squeamish about a few extra grams! :D

Take Care,
Nelson.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by aikigreg on May 12^th, 2009, 8:54am

Nelson, did your tire develop an "s" bend in the middle before it went?

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by evblazer on May 12^th, 2009, 9:15am

Well I am squemish about grams on the wheels. The kojaks were 230 g a piece which was pretty good. The marathon plus that are on my xtracycle are 980 g a piece (580 in hurricane size)

The kojaks were pretty good. I had no flats on that rear tire, they rolled well and they were pretty light. $34 is pretty mid priced for tires I've looked at but the sidewall failures kinda ruin it. I took another look and the rear brakes have a few mm before the tire. Maybe I scrubbed it against something because that sidewall is paper thin compared to the tread portion.
Take the positives with a huge grain of salt considering the source (schwalbe) but it seems they think the sidewall is a weak point.
http://www.schwalbetires.com/files/f_img_kojak_08.gif

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by Kwijybow on May 12^th, 2009, 9:48am

Quote:

Nelson, did your tire develop an "s" bend in the middle before it went?

Hi Greg,

yeah the tire came with what looked like a defect in the center tread.

The Stelvios have a slight raised center strip of rubber. (pretend you're looking down on the strip).

---------------- ---------------
\----------/

That had a section off from the rest, probably a case defect. That's right where it blew up. Just sort unzipped along the S curve.

Take Care,
Nelson.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by aikigreg on May 12^th, 2009, 10:42am

It's not a case defect. This is a known issue with stelvios. It's what caused my nasty road rash last year on the tica. If I'd known you had stelvios I'da warned ya. I'm sorry!

Kwijybow wrote:

Quote:

Nelson, did your tire develop an "s" bend in the middle before it went?

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by Kwijybow on May 12^th, 2009, 11:02am

I'm sorry to hear that Greg, I had that rear tire quite a while though, only started riding it a lot again this year after I got the Strada and started commuting on it. I didn't know that about the Stelvios. At least mine was pretty uneventful, but it was sudden and quite loud when it went. First time I ever had a failure of that type that wasn't on the sidewall like Mark's failures.

Take Care,
Nelson.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by aikigreg on May 12^th, 2009, 12:35pm

Kwijybow wrote:

From what I understood, I had thought it to be a problem with only the 406s. Then it happened to me on my 451, so after that I was done with stelvios. I'm trying out the ultremos now.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by evblazer on May 12^th, 2009, 12:41pm

Kwijybow wrote:

One reason I don't want a bag too big! Man I think 7 Pounds of redundant spares might be a little too much! ;)

Well to be fair Some of that 7lbs is the difference between the Aerotrunk/Rack and Aeropod.

I am sort of concerned about space though. I am probably going to go to a tailbox and I think I might get the 35L one instead of a 55L one just so I don't have an extra 20L to fill. I could fit just over 5 gallons of ice in there with just the extra space though. Portable AC! Hmm that would weigh 50lbs or so. Maybe I should get the smaller one [smiley=lipsrsealed.gif]

That doesn't sound good for the stelvios. I had a set of marathon plus tires bust out the center like that it was really bizzare but those tires are so mammoth it was almost rideable flat. With all this schwalbe talk maybe I need to try another brand of tires. Perhaps a 20 x 1.5 Randonneur by Vittoria heck it was Randonneur right in the tire name it has to be good right [smiley=grin.gif]

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by Kwijybow on May 12^th, 2009, 2:09pm

I think I'm off schwalbe as well, I may try some panaracers next time around. I'll see how long I can stand the Metro K's on the Strada. Haven't exactly warmed up to them yet. The only person I know who had the Vittoria Randonneurs liked them alot (Dennis Cook).

Take Care,
Nelson.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by Killer Bee on May 12^th, 2009, 2:45pm

Kwijybow wrote:

Uh,Ummm...Kwijybow, you know someone besides Dennis that rides with the Vittoria tires. She rides a Strada. 3,000 miles on the Vittoria's.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by AustinSkater on May 12^th, 2009, 2:55pm

Kwijybow wrote:

I had a new Panaracer Stradius Pro blow out on me during my final lap of the 12hr Tejas TT: It is hanging on my wall as a reminder to never buy that brand again.

Bryan

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by Kwijybow on May 12^th, 2009, 3:18pm

Quote:

Uh,Ummm...Kwijybow, you know someone besides Dennis that rides with the Vittoria tires. She rides a Strada. 3,000 miles on the Vittoria's.

Yeah but she rides the 200g Rubino Pros, not the 500g Randonneurs. :)

Quote:

I had a new Panaracer Stradius Pro blow out on me during my final lap of the 12hr Tejas TT: It is hanging on my wall as a reminder to never buy that brand again.

crap! Like I said I'm not sure there is any brand or model of tire that is really trustworthy! Seems like everybody has a story about every brand failing on them due to bad manufacturing, not just road hazard!

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by evblazer on May 12^th, 2009, 3:25pm

Killer Bee wrote:

Uh,Ummm...Kwijybow, you know someone besides Dennis that rides with the Vittoria tires. She rides a Strada. 3,000 miles on the Vittoria's.

The only lady riding a Strada I know should have tires outlast mine by at least 2-3x so that might not be the best endorsement :)

Oh well I ordered a pair of vittorias and I'll keep a kojak in my bag as a spare. I can use the same tubes. They are a little heavier and larger so maybe a higher carrying capacity and they have a reflective sidewall which we all know I need. Reflective Rim: Check, Reflective Spokes: Check, Reflective Tires: Check! Hm all I need is a reflective valve cover ;D
Hey look they just sqeek under 500
Size: 40-406 | 20x1,50 reflective
Colour: Black
Weight: 440
Psi: 45/95
Not much of a sidewall though [smiley=embarassed.gif]
http://www.togoparts.com/items/images/item-1227088797.jpg

I'll go easy on them for a few weeks before I push them and even if they are a tad slower that'll be ok I just hope they are at least as good as the kojaks have been with flats.

Kwijybow wrote:

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by Kwijybow on May 12^th, 2009, 4:02pm

Quote:

The bead failed at <1000 miles on multiple tires the exact same way each time and supposidly they were from different batches/years

Is this on the same set of wheels? or was that when you had your Giro?

I think to some extent nice ride with flat protection, implies the cushioning is coming from the sidewall. Maybe you're just wearing them out by using them. Don't you know you're supposed to buy the tires and then let them dry rot in the garage for 20 years, and then by another set. I swear I think that is the scenario tire manufactures design for.
>:(

Take Care,
Nelson.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by evblazer on May 12^th, 2009, 4:31pm

The Vredstien tires were on the Giro on two different rims. I had read on BROL about multiple people having the same exact issue. They were originally designed for cruiser type bikes that probably would be ridden a few miles at a time a few times a year, or ever, so yeah maybe it was the whole use part.

The only tires I've had on the Hurricane are the schwalbe kojaks. It came with some mismatched worn out tires which I rode once just to ride the bike but I already had the kojaks in hand.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by Killer Bee on May 12^th, 2009, 5:30pm

evblazer wrote:

[quote author=Killer Bee link=1242086615/15#18 date=1242157545]
Uh,Ummm...Kwijybow, you know someone besides Dennis that rides with the Vittoria tires. She rides a Strada. 3,000 miles on the Vittoria's.

The failures I've had aren't enough by themselves for a single event to put a tireout but repeated ones are a sign that maybe the tire wasn't designed with me or my bike in mind, no matter how much I think I like them.
Vredstiens perfect Moire tires are one I'll never do again at least on a recumbent and I thought those were great. The bead failed at <1000 miles on multiple tires the exact same way each time and supposidly they were from different batches/years. They sure rolled nice, kept flats off and were pretty.
Now I've had at least two kojaks fail the exact same way, a marathon plus blow out the center and two slowly bulge then blowout the sidewall similar to the kojaks but they actually had a real sidewall not a paper thin sidewall.

[/quote]

Careful there EV, you're gonna fire-up Mrs Starda & we'll all have to live with the fall out(especially me). [smiley=chinscratch.gif] Would you like to dig that hole deeper? [smiley=shrug.gif] AND Kwijybow is also riding with the Vittoria's on the Corsa. [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]

The Vittoria's are good tires. Me? I'm riding with the Michelin Pro 3's. [smiley=cool.gif]

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by evblazer on May 12^th, 2009, 5:40pm

Hole? I guess my comment was misinterpreted because I meant it to be complimentary.

Or maybe I shoudl say what trouble did you get into that your are trying to deflect on me eh? [smiley=undecided.gif]

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by Killer Bee on May 12^th, 2009, 5:52pm

evblazer wrote:

Now that's well stated. [smiley=notworthy.gif] , Oh, it takes nothing for me to get into trouble. My name should be "trouble". I like living on the edge... [smiley=dbanana.gif].

Seriously, the Vittoria's are good tires. You won't go wrong with this brand. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by jayg on May 12^th, 2009, 6:50pm

aikigreg wrote:

[quote author=Kwijybow link=1242086615/0#14 date=1242144142]I'm sorry to hear that Greg, I had that rear tire quite a while though, only started riding it a lot again this year after I got the Strada and started commuting on it. I didn't know that about the Stelvios. At least mine was pretty uneventful, but it was sudden and quite loud when it went. First time I ever had a failure of that type that wasn't on the sidewall like Mark's failures.

Take Care,
Nelson.

From what I understood, I had thought it to be a problem with only the 406s. Then it happened to me on my 451, so after that I was done with stelvios. I'm trying out the ultremos now.[/quote]

I recently installed Ultremos on my Corsa. I first tried them at 145 psi - too rough a ride. I'm running them at 100 psi now, and have not noticed any decrease in speed when riding on the mix of road surfaces on pay rides. What pressures have you tried and what have been your experiences with regards to their effect on speed and ride quality, so far?

Jay G.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by aikigreg on May 12^th, 2009, 9:13pm

Hard to tell. I've installed them on a wheel I've never ridden before, and I've only used them for maybe 25 miles. They don't seem to be any worse or better than the conti gp 4k tires, though. I've never had rims that let you go past 125psi, so I couldn't tell you what the pressur ethat high might be like. Mine I try to keep right at 120-125.

jayg wrote:

[quote author=aikigreg link=1242086615/15#15 date=1242149724][quote author=Kwijybow link=1242086615/0#14 date=1242144142]I'm sorry to hear that Greg, I had that rear tire quite a while though, only started riding it a lot again this year after I got the Strada and started commuting on it. I didn't know that about the Stelvios. At least mine was pretty uneventful, but it was sudden and quite loud when it went. First time I ever had a failure of that type that wasn't on the sidewall like Mark's failures.

Take Care,
Nelson.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by mleuck on May 14^th, 2009, 6:39pm

evblazer wrote:

I usually run them 85-90psi. The range on the sidewall is 65-95psi.

I'll check the brakes again but they were pretty far from the tire and the hydros go straight in and out rather then pivot.

I always run mine at 100

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by evblazer on May 14^th, 2009, 6:45pm

Well Schwalbe wrote me about the issue, I never contacted them they found my post. They asked me to fill in a incident report and they would send it to their support for evaluation. They already suggested based on my bike I ride the tire won't work if I'm much over 160lbs which I clearly am.
They think if I weigh more then that I may be able to get away with a 20x2.35 big apple! Which well I know how I love fat tires but that won't fit by bike in a million years.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by Kwijybow on May 14^th, 2009, 6:59pm

That's interesting that they found your post! hmm.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by evblazer on May 14^th, 2009, 8:07pm

It was a post I had made over on bikeforums where they seem to have an active member of their staff constantly looking out for and answering questions anytime someone brings up schwalbe tires. Sort of like that guy from bikesdirect(?)

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by mleuck on May 17^th, 2009, 10:30am

evblazer wrote:

Thats about the stupidest thing I've heard from a manufacturer yet. I've done maybe 5,000 miles on 2 sets of Kojaks and haven't had the problems you have, bad batch of tires?

You might also try the Schwalbe Durano, supposedly a long lasting fast tire

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by evblazer on May 17^th, 2009, 4:16pm

The 406 (75kg) has a much lower weight limit then the 559 (100kg). The durano in the size is even lower. I have a pair of vittoria rando's mounted which barely fit. Actually the little feelers on them rub the fork but the tires fits in there with a few mm of clearance. Haven't ridden them yet but they felt alot sturdier on the sidewall but what do I know.

I guess I got nearly 4000 miles out of them and on one of my last rides definately well exceeded their recommended specs so maybe when I get to 200 or so I"ll go back to them if the vittoria aren't working for me.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by evblazer on May 19^th, 2009, 8:49am

Day two with the Vittoria Rando tires. Wheel spins fine by hand and no brake rub front or rear but it feels like I am riding with seized brakes or something. Maybe it'll make me stronger and get a better workout right?
They did feel a little better today then yesterday. Last night when I was riding home it felt like I had to pedal to maintain speed downhill and I had a slight tailwind. They still won't takeoff downhill as I can't even hit 30 on a pretty steep downhill without pedaling hard where before I could coast that fast by the time I hit the bottom.

Title: Re: Another tire bites the dust
Post by Kwijybow on May 19^th, 2009, 9:00am

It always amazes me how much difference tires can make! In both feel and performance.

Take Care,
Nelson.