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Message started by system-f on Apr 26^th, 2009, 11:25am

Title: Curious about recumbents
Post by system-f on Apr 26^th, 2009, 11:25am

Hello everyone,

I didn't put this post in the introduction forum because that seemed to be for people that are already riding a recumbent.

I am 30 years old, getting in better shape and an avid mountain biker. I am also just recently getting into road tours, but am having comfort issues. About 2 months ago I pulled my back at work and though it is only a muscle pull and nearly healed it made road biking nearly impossible. For some reason the upright position of mountain biking for extended periods doesn't bother me at all, but I just did a 60 mile road bike tour and hated the way that my body felt after the ride due to soreness. Before the tour began I talked with the owner of a recumbent trike and asked him about some of the features/how it worked. Another thing I CANNOT stand about road biking is the wind. During the last 10 miles of the 60 mile road tour we were heading directly into a 20mph wind gusting to 30mph. It was without a doubt the most depressing experience I have ever had on any bike. I am very close to being in the market for a new road bike, but I do not want to rule out the possibility of a recumbent. After seeing the trike in person I am very much in love with the benefits of a trike vs a two wheeler. So here are my questions:
1. Other than weight what are the downsides of a trike vs a two wheeler?
2. Right now I usually run a 13-15mph average on 30+ mile rides (getting faster). How much will the recumbent slow me down?
3. I love climbing hills and understand that this is where a recumbent might suffer, though I have no problem spinning out.
Is this true or do you find that you can climb just as well as a DF once you get used to the recumbent way of riding?
4. Is there a shop in Fort Worth that sells recumbent trikes?

Thank you for your help.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 26^th, 2009, 2:16pm

system-f wrote:

..... So here are my questions:
1. Other than weight what are the downsides of a trike vs a two wheeler?
2. Right now I usually run a 13-15mph average on 30+ mile rides (getting faster). How much will the recumbent slow me down?
3. I love climbing hills and understand that this is where a recumbent might suffer, though I have no problem spinning out.
Is this true or do you find that you can climb just as well as a DF once you get used to the recumbent way of riding?
4. Is there a shop in Fort Worth that sells recumbent trikes?

Thank you for your help.

Welcome to the board, and you're smart to ask questions!!! My particular thoughts would be:

1) A trike's low profile creates some basic issues -- a) they're not group-ride-friendly if you're with a bunch of DF bikes; b) low ground clearance may create issues with derailleur damage if you go off the side of a paved trail (depending upon the trike), and c) you may have some paranoiac thoughts along the way, realizing your head is at car-bumper level ;) [smiley=injured.gif] Additionally, a trike will be a bit slower, just due to added weight and the rolling resistance of an additional tire. However, if averaging 13-15 mph on rides is your basic goal, that is certainly doable with improved fitness! And trikes can be a lot of fun, besides taking away any worries about balance starting and stopping, and you can climb a hill as slowly as you wish! Be aware that there are trikes that have seats that are adjustable, and those whose seats are dependent upon the frame itself (mesh wrap). And that weight of a trike can vary anywhere from ~30 pounds to above 60...

2) I'd venture to say that you may be SLIGHTLY slower on a recumbent, initially, but that will quickly go away with improving fitness once your legs adjust. Ultimately, a recumbent can be FASTER than a regular bike, with less effort, due to aerodynamic advantage. Even going the same speed as other riders on "upwrongs," you're not working as hard. Riding a 'bent gets you out of the whole "I must paceline" mentality...

3) And improved climbing just comes from climbing hills -- you'll never be able to stand on the pedals to give the added force from your body weight, so you just learn to spin, and build up your endurance... but one can still get very good at it, if you want to, especially on short rollers -- it's the long slogs that beat you down... and some bikes are better for climbing than others, for a variety of reasons, not just bike weight.

4) Fort Worth? http://www.citycyclisttx.com/page6.html

Enjoy, and keep us posted!

Paul

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 26^th, 2009, 2:27pm

system-f wrote:

... but I just did a 60 mile road bike tour and hated the way that my body felt after the ride due to soreness. Before the tour began I talked with the owner of a recumbent trike and asked him about some of the features/how it worked. Another thing I CANNOT stand about road biking is the wind. During the last 10 miles of the 60 mile road tour we were heading directly into a 20mph wind gusting to 30mph. It was without a doubt the most depressing experience I have ever had on any bike.

Ah, Grasshopper, you have discovered the secret... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Soreness will literally be a thing of the past -- at the end of even the longest, most brutal ride, you will be nothing except tired, not sore...

Any recumbent will give you some aerodynamic advantage -- even the "low bottom bracket" styles like the Stratus, Gold Rush, etc. are an improvement. These are the type of 'bents that often utilize fairings for even better airflow. (NOTE: A "crankforward / CF" does not improve aerodynamics) However, the more reclined seating versions made by Bacchetta, Volae, RANS (XStream, F5) and several other brands help you in that regard without fairings. The improved aerodynamics is especially helpful into strong headwinds like we've had lately! If you're looking at that type, the next factor is to decide if you want hi, mid, or lowracer styles (even in trikes!), and short, mid, or long wheelbase. Decisions, decisions!!!

Check out these articles, for general comparison info:

http://www.angletechcycles.com/why_a_recumbent.htm

http://www.bicyclinglife.com/PracticalCycling/FancyBikes.htm

You may well find that the comfort of a recumbent leads directly to longer rides, and riding more often... However, keep in mind that a 'bent is less versatile than a DF, from the standpoint of curb-hopping, trail riding, etc. But they are supreme road bikes... So plan accordingly.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by system-f on Apr 26^th, 2009, 2:37pm

Don't get me wrong I would like to be averaging around 18mph no matter what I am riding. The recumbent trike rider I was talking to told me he would average around 12, but said he wasn't in a hurry and seemed at my level.

I also feel that getting a recumbent might be jumping the gun since I have only been on one tour and it was only 60 miles! The guy I was riding with was riding a fixed gear bike on the tour and he would turn around to check on me! He usually rides centuries on a fixed gear and has ridden to Corpus and back in groups on his Cyclocross. So, I know that the soreness might go away, but the fascination of automatically being comfortable while riding on the road and focusing on other aspects of the ride is very tempting. I just want whatever I get next to be my primary road ride.

Thanks again

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 26^th, 2009, 2:51pm

system-f wrote:

Frankly, distance riding on a DF will never get to the point where you will describe it as "comfortable," simply due to the seating and posture mechanics. Simply put, if you want to be as fast or faster than you would be normally, with SIGNFICANTLY greater comfort and riding enjoyment, try a 'bent. Also, since you already know you like riding, and plan to continue, do NOT purchase an entry-level bike like an EZ-1 -- you probably won't be satisfied with it. Depending upon your budget, look at least mid-range. Do some test rides at Plano Cycling or City Cycles or RBM, and keep asking questions here!

However, a caveat -- it's like having lap-band or other signficant weight-loss surgery -- there's got to be a mental adjustment that goes along with the other changes, because you're signficantly changing your overall cycling "social" status. Current cycling friends may deride or tease you, you won't be welcome in the middle of pacelines, and every kid under the age of 15 will be shouting "COOL BIKE!!" at you, so you can't be an introvert... ;) :D However, eventually, you'll be kicking your friends' tushes on rides.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif] and at the end of the Hotter 'n Hell 100, you'll feel GOOD!!!!

And now I'll leave it to others to chip in...

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by aikigreg on Apr 26^th, 2009, 4:49pm

Trikes are definitely slower than reegular recumbents. a LOT slower depending on what kind you buy. If you want performance, a trike honestly is not for you. You will initially be slower on a recumbent, but that will go away with mileage. Hill climbing is all relative. I am a slower hill climber than some, but I have worked hard at getting better at it and I'm generally in the top third of the group going up the hill. Paul and Steve are often the first. But you'll be significantly faster downhill and on the flats, as well as more comfortable and having a lot more fun in my opinion. It is generally accepted as fact that you will be slower uphills than you would have been on an upright. but that doesn't mean you have to be SLOW by any means.

City cyclist and Bike's inch n Arlington both sell bents, but neither shop sells PERFORMANCE bents. You need to take some time, drive around, and try a bunch of different kinds of bents. I have a rans v-rex and a bacchetta corsa you're welcome to come take a spin on if you like. I like right off the trinity trail near Bryant Irvin road. Just send me a PM.

Have you thought about what kind of bent you might want if not a trike?

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by goatstick on Apr 26^th, 2009, 5:44pm

system-f wrote:

About 2 months ago I pulled my back at work and though it is only a muscle pull and nearly healed it made road biking nearly impossible.
...
I just did a 60 mile road bike tour and hated the way that my body felt after the ride due to soreness. Before the tour began I talked with the owner of a recumbent trike and asked him about some of the features/how it worked.
...
Another thing I CANNOT stand about road biking is the wind.
...
So here are my questions:
1. Other than weight what are the downsides of a trike vs a two wheeler?
2. Right now I usually run a 13-15mph average on 30+ mile rides (getting
faster). How much will the recumbent slow me down?
3. I love climbing hills and understand that this is where a recumbent
might suffer, though I have no problem spinning out.
Is this true or do you find that you can climb just as well as a DF once you get
used to the recumbent way of riding?

Thank you for your help.

A lot of good questions and you have been given good answers. I'll give you some personal anecdotes that might help you. I'm in my mid 50's and I ditched the motor vehicle (motorcycle) about 6 years ago. I ride various bicycles plus an electric power-assisted trike ('Car') and ride somewhere between 7k and 10k miles per year. I started the PA thing because both of my feet are broken and it's really hilly around here.

Trikes... My first recumbent was a trike I bought used for commuting 32 miles/day. I added the p.a. and found that everything got better - faster, less stress, better fitness, safer. I still used my road bikes but their use dwindled quickly. I moved up to a better trike and everything got even better. Hills are indeed slower and harder, but still not that bad. Cars tend to give a trike more room than a bike. Trikes are really great for shopping. Trikes can be a little more difficult when traveling cross-country, mainly due to getting them in and out of places such as motels. Trikes tend to have a much harsher ride on chipseal and potholes, etc. are a little harder to deal with.

Back problems... Same here almost 2 years ago finished off my road bike riding. I bought a Bacchetta Corsa high-racer a little over a year ago and I've already put just short of 9500 miles on it, including close to 50 centuries. I had done about 10 centuries in my entire life on road bikes...

Wind... Recumbent trike or bike is easier in the wind. I still remember the first group ride on my trike with about 10 road bikes, going uphill against a 15mph headwind (with a fairing), finally asking why everyone was slowing down and I was passing them. I honestly didn't realize what was happening but got a bunch of nasty looks from my friends. With the Corsa, they stick me on point and tell me to go really slowly so they can draft me.

Ave speeds... On a trike they are liable to be a couple of mph slower. It will take some time to develop the new muscles to pedal a recumbent, but if you keep it up, they'll come.

Compare speeds and distances. Typical rides on my 2004 Specialized carbon Roubaix:
Date Time Odo Max Avg Dist Location
Sun Apr 1 2.52.16 9482.9 31.8 17.4 49.46 talleyriomedina
Wed Apr 4 2.13.22 9521.2 37.9 17.2 38.23 1605I10CVCMLoop
Sat Apr 14 1.42.15 9549.3 36.2 16.4 28.09 211loopccw
Sun Apr 15 2.56.46 9600.0 31.5 17.4 50.62 471riomedtalley
Sat Apr 28 2.05.25 9637.4 36.1 17.7 37.00 SLBoeFredI101604

The Corsa:
Date Time Dist Avg Max Odo Location
Sat Apr 4 3.25.53 62.46 18.2 40.9 8787.4 I10AmmannBlanco1604
Mon Apr 6 2.00.66 32.41 16.4 43.4 8841.4 SLOF
Sat Apr 11 3.31.35 61.97 17.5 40.6 8908.9 Waring
Wed Apr 15 2.37.22 45.48 17.3 36.5 8954.5 GrnMtn
Sun Apr 19 6.38.16 98.88 14.8 37.4 9053.4 Austin
Mon Apr 20 5.37.53 98.15 17.4 37.3 9151.6 Austin-Home

Don't worry about waiting to get a recumbent for touring. Get one for fun. When you are ready, the recumbent will be ready to go touring. You won't need a special touring bike to do that.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by system-f on Apr 26^th, 2009, 6:30pm

Quote:

However, a caveat -- it's like having lap-band or other signficant weight-loss surgery -- there's got to be a mental adjustment that goes along with the other changes, because you're signficantly changing your overall cycling "social" status. Current cycling friends may deride or tease you, you won't be welcome in the middle of pacelines, and every kid under the age of 15 will be shouting "COOL BIKE!!" at you, so you can't be an introvert...

I am a pretty big introvert, but oh well I get along with everyone. All of the roadies I ride with are mainly mountain bikers except for one. It doesn't matter what you ride, the crew I ride with is going to make fun of me no matter what. :) I am aware of the social stigma that a recumbent brings, but always enjoyed being different. It is almost like thinking out of the box is a requirement to be looking into a bent bike.

Quote:

City cyclist and Bike's inch n Arlington both sell bents, but neither shop sells PERFORMANCE bents. You need to take some time, drive around, and try a bunch of different kinds of bents. I have a rans v-rex and a bacchetta corsa you're welcome to come take a spin on if you like. I like right off the trinity trail near Bryant Irvin road. Just send me a PM.

Have you thought about what kind of bent you might want if not a trike?

I am about to move right by 183 and the Trinity and currently live not too far away. I have thought about a LWB high steering type setup but am not sure how good that kind of bike is going to be on a tour like the Hotter than hell (which I plan on doing even if I don't have a bent by then). Right now it looks like a good bent is going to be out of my price range, but not by much. I am not opposed to buying used or even building up a frame, as I did with my mountain bike, if that is possible.
What kind of weights should I look at for a middle ground bent bike? What kind of weights for a middle ground trike? Manufactures of those? Is there anywhere around that would rent one for a weekend? I would much rather spend/waste a couple of hundred or more on rental fees than several thousand on something that won’t work for me.

Thanks again for the help. This community has really impressed me with the great advice!

I take part of the price thing back. I just looked at the MSRP of the V-Rex and am VERY close to being able to swing that price range. I really like that way that bike looks and the components, but have to admit that I am a disc break freak.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by system-f on Apr 26^th, 2009, 6:38pm

I really like the 08 Rans V3 recumbent, but it looks like this is a LWB bike. Would something like this work for Century tours?

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by aikigreg on Apr 26^th, 2009, 9:15pm

You seem to be defining "tour" as any long ride, since you said the Hotter N Hell is a tour. A I understanding? In that case, just about any good bent will work - lowracer, highrace, v-rex style, or a LWB like the v3. They're all great bikes and each has it's advantage. The Hotter N hell race was won by a guy on a highracer, so believe me they work very well. I've done two diferent sub 5 hour hotter n hells on my lowracer, and plan on doing another one this year on my highracer.

There are tons of great bents out there, but my top companies to refer peope to are bacchetta and rans for 2-wheels, and catrike, greenspeed, and terratrike for 3-wheeled.

If you're on any kind of budget, consider buying used. You can find twice the bike for the price. For the budget of a v-rex, you should be able to find a 2 wheeler 35 pounds or less, and a trike at around 40 pounds.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by system-f on Apr 26^th, 2009, 10:03pm

Quote:

You seem to be defining "tour" as any long ride, since you said the Hotter N Hell is a tour. A I understanding?

Yes you are correct. I am very non-competitive and just enjoy the crowd and the scenery. The 60 mile ride I did was actually a tour, but I understand the Hotter than Hell is a race even though I wouldn't ride it as one. I am at the stage where I just need to finish.

I really like the V-Rex LE and V3. It looks like both of these bikes come with disc capable hubs, mounts for calipers, and are in my price range. Now I just need to go and test ride..then maybe pick one up.

Thank you all for your help. You may have another DF rider.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by aikigreg on Apr 26^th, 2009, 10:29pm

Well, if you're just wanting to be able to ride long rides comfortably, then there are a lot of bents that will work, and both of those are good bents. I've done 195 miles on the V-rex in a day and it holds up rather well.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by Killer Bee on Apr 27^th, 2009, 9:31am

Several of the Rbenters rode 200- 600k distances this past weekend on short wheelbase Bacchetta's. Other than the expected muscle soreness , I think we all fared well. The short wheel base high racer is about as close as you will come to the traditional road bike.

Several other Rbenters have short wheel base 'bents & complete long distance ultra distance rides on a very regular basis. Other rbent riders participate in 100k charity rides on short wheel base.

I would suggest you ask yourself what your riding goals are go from there. Keep in mind that most short wheelbase 'bents are much easier to transport than the longer wheelbase models. It all comes back to personal preference & what your looking to accomplish.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by evblazer on Apr 27^th, 2009, 11:02am

goatstick wrote:

Wind... Recumbent trike or bike is easier in the wind. I still remember the first group ride on my trike with about 10 road bikes, going uphill against a 15mph headwind (with a fairing), finally asking why everyone was slowing down and I was passing them. I honestly didn't realize what was happening but got a bunch of nasty looks from my friends. With the Corsa, they stick me on point and tell me to go really slowly so they can draft me.

I had forgotten how much windier it is way up there on a road bike till this weekend. I took my road bike out on the Texas Flyers Saturday Social ride Ray and Angie were there on their LWB Rans recumbents. They were just off coasting in the wind and I was really putting out all my legs had to keep up for the first part of the ride. I don't know if I have even done a century but I might have done a 100k. Within a couple weeks with my first SWB recumbent I road a 75+ mile ride and then a few weeks later I did a 200k with some very patient riders here.

In regards to trikes they do have the difference of being wider and normally a bit heavier but I think some folks go slower with them because it is so easy just to lay back and go slow and not have to worry about balancing at all. My wife has a Catrike 700 which is lighter then my two wheeler and it can go pretty well. It is a low bike but she really isn't that much lower then I am on my hurricane.

system-f wrote:

I take part of the price thing back. I just looked at the MSRP of the V-Rex and am VERY close to being able to swing that price range. I really like that way that bike looks and the components, but have to admit that I am a disc break freak.

I picked up a Giro 26 and rode it a little over 5500 miles before selling it so I have some experience with disk brakes on bents. One of my big criteria was disc brakes when I picked that bike for two reasons. Most importantly becuase I could break a few spokes, crack a rim and still ride with having full braking capability. I have had to do both riding back east in the winter when I hit a really bad snow hidden pothole which brings me to the second reason of all weather braking. Right now though I think a good set of all weather salmon brake pads on a good set of caliper or rim bakers really take care of any rain and I don't have to sludge through snow, sleet or mud on my recumbent so that has been dropped from my requirements list. A few weeks ago I was flying down a hill at just over 50mph with 300lbs+ of rider+recumbent and had no problem at all modulating or slowing down to the limit of tire traction.

A nice thing about recumbent historically has been you don't totally lose your investment and they definately hold their value better then many upright bikes. It is still better to not throw away that money but it may make it a little easier to try something long term to see if it fits.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 27^th, 2009, 1:34pm

system-f wrote:

I really like the 08 Rans V3 recumbent, but it looks like this is a LWB bike. Would something like this work for Century tours?

You may be creating a self-misconception about SWB vs. LWB... There is no "distance limitation" as such, related to short- vs. long wheelbase. If nothing else, a LWB is more apt to reduce fatigue from chipseal vibration, through natural frame absorption -- granted, this is dependent upon frame material and other factors. But, heck, I did my first century on an EZ-1!!!!

However, the V3 is a GREAT bike, especially for long distances. The steel version is a few pounds heavier than the aluminum version, but it has excellent aerodynamics and power transfer. There is one on the rack at Plano Cycling that is an aluminum version that has the new RANS "Hoagie" seat, so it's available to test ride -- but it's priced above $3K due to high-end components. They also have many Bacchetta SWBs, as well as an XStream and Stratus XP. The "monster" Stratus XP is also an excellent touring and distance bike -- I've done countless rides over 125 miles on mine.

What you gain with a SWB other than possibly slightly less bike weight is a) easier transportability, b) a bit better maneuverability in tight spots, and c) slightly improved aerodynamic profile. But as Ray said to a guy asking about his experience with the XStream, the SWB Ti Aero is actually a somewhat "harsher" ride than what the LWB XStream provides.

Test ride, test ride.....

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by goatstick on Apr 27^th, 2009, 8:32pm

FlyingLaZBoy wrote:

You may be creating a self-misconception about SWB vs. LWB... There is no "distance limitation" as such, related to short- vs. long wheelbase.
...
What you gain with a SWB other than possibly slightly less bike weight is a) easier transportability, b) a bit better maneuverability in tight spots, and c) slightly improved aerodynamic profile.
...

couple more issues:

Bottom bracket height - in general, the further you lay back and the higher the bottom bracket, the more power you can transfer to the cranks, thus more speed, etc. SWB bikes tend to have higher BBs than LWBs. Higher BBs tend to be less easy to learn and maneuver in tight situations though.

Seat design and fitting can play a huge part in determining how the above issues play out and show the need for road testing. Mounting a Euromesh seat on a Bacchetta Agio (instead of the std Recurve seat) and laying it way back resulted in an easy 5mph speed increase for me, party due to better aerodynamics and partly due to better power transfer. It also resulted in far greater distances being easily achieved. The Recurve seat is more useful and comfortable to me for local shopping within a 5 mile radius though.

I suspect that how a given bike is rigged might possibly produce greater variation than the difference between a SWB and LWB that are rigged fairly similarly.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by Kwijybow on Apr 27^th, 2009, 9:27pm

Another consideration for LWB vs SWB that might have been mentioned and I didn't see, is that for a short legged person, the typical high racer puts you significantly more on your tiptoes. This one gets used to (I have short legs!), but for the new bent rider LWBs are comparatively much easier to ride. If you have a normal to long inseam you might not see much difference. Like most here I have owned, and likely will own many different bikes and brands. Its a bit of an addiction really. So I wouldn't sweat the first one too much, as you will learn something about where to go with the next one! There are lots of good used bents out there, and I believe Paul mentioned getting a step above the starter / comfort / low price category, as you will likely not be pleased with that long term.

Take Care,
Nelson.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by irodguy on Apr 27^th, 2009, 10:25pm

I personally think a LWB is easier to get your balance on than the high racer. If you are really well balanced then either will work. I personally like the angle of a high bottom bracket. The X-Stream basically sits almost exactly like my SWB except a bit lower. The SWB is a little more maneuverable in tight turns but with time I am sure the X-Stream will be fine.

All that said I have the X-Stream for speed, but the trike still feels more like a fast sports car. All of the above have their place, just buy one of each and you will be fine.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by system-f on Apr 27^th, 2009, 11:02pm

I am 5'11" , 175 with a 34" waist and shorter legs with a long torso, but pretty well balanced torso to legs wise. I have watched some V-3s and V-rex in videos. It looks very comfortable except for having to tilt your neck forward. I guess this is something you get use to.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 28^th, 2009, 8:22am

Regarding the V3 at Plano Cycling... I believe the handlebar riser is a "straight up" version, which I think is weird, because an angled riser is better for bringing the grips back toward you for a reclined seat angle -- especially with a Hoagie seat on it! So if/when you test ride it, realize that a "not quite there" reach to the grips can easily be remedied, and just move the seat further forward than normal.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by larry on Apr 28^th, 2009, 4:04pm

Hey System F,
I am a recumbent convert and a happy one indeed. I commute to and from work each day, 5.5 miles each way. I have had no problems on hills, except when I stop and have to start on an incline. That takes a some practice. I have a sun EZ-1 SX and it is the most comfortable bike I have ever ridden. Bicycles, Inc at the corner of I-20 and Green Oaks in S. Arlington sells a fewrecumbent trikes and several slick two wheelers. They give you GREAT service.Have a great ride... [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by AustinSkater on Apr 28^th, 2009, 4:39pm

Steve (Killer Bee) mentioned that some of us did a 600k ride this past weekend, out of all of them I am the newest to 'bents (by about a week, but still). So perhaps with the least experience, I can give you some advice:

1. Test ride, pure and simple. PCF let us take two bikes for a weekend with no problem.

2. The wind: With a pure headwind the 'bent has an advantage, but with a cross-wind, give me plenty of side space.

3. Hills: Anyone who says a 'bent can't climb is lying. Of course, it all depends on the rider/bike, but I had a high-racer drop me on a good climb when I was on my DF (and I'm a climber).

4. Comfort: Hands down, give me my Bachetta (no more numb hands - or saddle sores).

5. Pack riding: I ride with the local club on their fast past Tue/Thursday rides, and they only gave me grief for a little while. It does take some getting used to riding in close with DFs that aren't used to 'bents (especially when you're still getting used to a 'bent), but it can be done.

6. Commuting, touring, t-shirt rides and racing: The 'bent can do it all, just not racing against DFs.

7. Test ride: Important enough to mention twice.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 28^th, 2009, 4:43pm

What he said.... [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by system-f on Apr 28^th, 2009, 6:15pm

I just rode my first bent bike. It was a shoter LWB and a very heavy bike. I didn't zig or zag just jumped on it and went ( I won't be so lucky with a swb bike like the v-rex). Riding this entry level bent felt like what a bike is supposed to feel like. I noticed it was very easy to spin. The bent I rode was too heavy, and too much of a cruiser for the price, but it was a good start. I then found out they had a much more performance oriented lwb bike that is nearly identical in riding position to the Rans V-3. Long story short I might have a bent bike way before I ever thought possible. I am going to ride some SWB bents tomorrow evening and anything else I can before I pull the trigger.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 28^th, 2009, 9:22pm

Where did you go to ride, City Cyclist?

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by system-f on Apr 28^th, 2009, 10:14pm

Yup, and they were very nice. I kept telling them they need to carry Rans and their prices seemed to be just about on par with everyone else. They have a Sun they are putting together that I will ride in the next couple of days. The price is very low considering it is last years model, but it has many of the more middle ground features that I am looking for and the ones it is missing are easy upgrades. It is also only 3 lbs heavier than the Rans bike I have been looking at. The only thing it dosen't have is the option to go to Disc brakes like most of the Rans bikes I have seen have. For the price difference I might be able to live without this...but really don't know. I wish there was some way I could put 25miles on something before I bought it. People seem to view Sun as a lower level company, but we will see. Right now I have made a commitment to no one and have more bikes to ride!

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by irodguy on Apr 28^th, 2009, 10:39pm

Not my bike but if you are looking at LWB you might want to see if this puppy is still available http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/bik/1110679705.html. If it is offer him $800 or something and see if he goes for it. Also on craigs is http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/bik/1141477296.html the burley is an odd looking beast but evidently pretty comfy according to friends in Florida.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by AustinSkater on Apr 29^th, 2009, 10:56am

system-f wrote:

Yup, and they were very nice. ... I wish there was some way I could put 25miles on something before I bought it.

My suggestion on this is, once you've got your first choice solid in your mind, ask the shop if you can take it for a weekend test before you buy it. A good shop should have no problems with that. Shellene and I tested two Bachetta Corsa's from PCF, one S/S and one "standard" for a weekend (we got well over 25 miles riding in), and then ended up keeping the S/S and ordering a second S/S. PCF had no problems with that at all.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by goatstick on Apr 29^th, 2009, 11:23am

AustinSkater wrote:

2. The wind: With a pure headwind the 'bent has an advantage, but with a cross-wind, give me plenty of side space.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by larry on Apr 29^th, 2009, 12:07pm

RE your first ride on a little heavy entry level shorter LWB. Sounds like my EZ-1! I am sure you could get a zippier model than a Sum EZ-1 for touring and longer rides. I tried a SWB with low steering and found it unsteady. I am sure I could get used to it. I prefered the LWB because i could immediately get on a ride comfortably. The shorter LWB was preferable because I needed to commute using sidewalks a good ways each day. bottom line: 'bents are really comfortable, whichever one you choose. Happy riding! [smiley=cheers.gif]

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by AustinSkater on Apr 29^th, 2009, 12:11pm

goatstick wrote:

[quote author=AustinSkater link=1240763156/15#21 date=1240954795]
2. The wind: With a pure headwind the 'bent has an advantage, but with a cross-wind, give me plenty of side space.

As compared to a DF? My Corsa and Agio do much better than a DF in a crosswind. I've been on the Corsa several rides when DF riders were literally getting blown off the road and it just felt like the rear tire was going flat a bit. With a HED3 on the front it even tucks into the wind a bit to counter the side gusts. A little disconcerting at first, but a pretty neat effect at speed. [/quote]

As compared to my DF, yes. I have been blown into the grass on one ride, and shoved into the next lane on another. Of course, it may just be a case of comparing apples to oranges at this point. I've been on a DF for a while now, but only on the Corsa for about 4 months. When I get hit with a crosswind on the DF it may just be I handle it better, since I'm used to it.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by Kwijybow on Apr 29^th, 2009, 12:58pm

Quote:

As compared to my DF, yes. I have been blown into the grass on one ride, and shoved into the next lane on another.

As for crosswind, I used to be more worried, but I've grown to prefer the Corsa or Strada to a DF in heavy crosswinds. They definitely seem to move along better, and I feel more in control. This was not the case initially for me, as I sweated the higher winds. So familiarity has definitely played a role on the comfort front. I think the longer wheelbase helps as well.

Take Care,
Nelson.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by bikerteam on Apr 29^th, 2009, 1:24pm

AustinSkater wrote:

2. The wind: With a pure headwind the 'bent has an advantage, but with a cross-wind, give me plenty of side space.

3. Hills: Anyone who says a 'bent can't climb is lying. Of course, it all depends on the rider/bike, but I had a high-racer drop me on a good climb when I was on my DF (and I'm a climber).

4. Comfort: Hands down, give me my Bachetta (no more numb hands - or saddle sores).

5. Pack riding: I ride with the local club on their fast past Tue/Thursday rides, and they only gave me grief for a little while. It does take some getting used to riding in close with DFs that aren't used to 'bents (especially when you're still getting used to a 'bent), but it can be done.

6. The 'bent can do it all, just not racing against DFs.

7. Test ride: Important enough to mention twice.

Wow Bryan, while I completely agree, rougly 6 months ago I would never have believed those words would come from you. The first time I met you was at last year's TTTT, but the first time I rode with you was at last year's Populaire, the day after the Dart. For a while I was leading the pack heading up 377, and you were right behind me. I don't remember specificlly what you said, but it was something about bent's should be up front. I led for the first 10-15 miles before fading back to ride with some of my friends. Then Schlitter took over and pulled everyone the rest of the way.

FWIW, it's great to read how you feel about bents in such a relatively short time period. Does Shellene feel the same way?

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by evblazer on Apr 29^th, 2009, 1:29pm

The only place I have a problem with the weight of my bike, and more so the weight of the rider, is long sustained hills. That is usually where I start losing folks on brevets if I had kept up with anyone to begin with. Well that and jamming my chain which with an actual double crank for my double set of rings I think is finally fixed!

In crosswinds I find it easier to handle my road bike because it seems I have alot more natural lean control over it and can recover if I overcorrected. I think some of my problems on the hurricane in really strong crosswinds have been because I corrected the same amount I would on my Giro which may not work because I'm so much lower. The only bike I get blown around is on my fuji touring bike with an xtracycle on it that thing flies all over the place even with 100lbs of dog food on it.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by AustinSkater on Apr 29^th, 2009, 1:46pm

bikerteam wrote:

I have had a lot of fun with the Corsa, but Charlie asked me during the brevet this past weekend which bike I preferred. I didn't even hesitate before I responded: "My Merckx." Comfort isn't the only thing I consider when I'm riding, I am first and foremost a climber. Until I get to the same level on the Corsa that I have on the Merckx, that will always be my favorite bike. That being said, I intend to keep riding the Corsa until I do get to that level (considering how long I've been riding DFs, that may be a good long time on the 'bent - and there is no complaining in that statement).

I'll let Shellene answer that, I just know that she loves to ride bikes!

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by system-f on Apr 29^th, 2009, 9:01pm

I had a chance to really ride a V-Rex and hop on a Corsa for a second. I REALLY like the V-Rex. I REALLY REALLY like hte V-Rex and the newer V-Rex LE as the features I want and a price I like. Tomorrow or Friday I hope to get the chance to ride a Sun Tomahawk which is similar to the V-3. Depending on what happens this weekend I might go out and ride a V-3. If anyone knows of an LBS that has a V-3 close to Fort Worth please let me know.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by aikigreg on Apr 29^th, 2009, 9:35pm

I love to climb as well. I don't do it as well as I'd like, but then I'll never be everything I want to be. Given that I haven't ridden a road bike in a year now, I'd have to say that I am probably as good a climber on the bent as I was on the upright. But I'd be ok with being a slower climber, since I know I'm faster overall. It's good enough most of the time to know I'm in the top third of most packs I've ridden with.

I've never thought bents were for everyone. Many in LSR have zero pain on a df and enjoy the heck out of - so why change? In the end they're all just bicycles. Mine just happen to be a cooler one than most ;D

AustinSkater wrote:

[quote author=bikerteam link=1240763156/30#32 date=1241029450]

Wow Bryan, while I completely agree, rougly 6 months ago I would never have believed those words would come from you. The first time I met you was at last year's TTTT, but the first time I rode with you was at last year's Populaire, the day after the Dart. For a while I was leading the pack heading up 377, and you were right behind me. I don't remember specificlly what you said, but it was something about bent's should be up front. I led for the first 10-15 miles before fading back to ride with some of my friends. Then Schlitter took over and pulled everyone the rest of the way.

FWIW, it's great to read how you feel about bents in such a relatively short time period. Does Shellene feel the same way?

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Apr 29^th, 2009, 10:54pm

system-f wrote:

Plano Cycling is probably the only place with a V3 on the sales floor. The Tomahawk could be interesting, with the 700 rear wheel -- I've never test ridden the one at Richardson BikeMart, so I don't know how it handles. It may be a rougher ride than the VRex due to the monotube, but maybe not. But if you're truly enamoured with the VRex, it's definitely not a bad first bike!!

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by goatstick on Apr 29^th, 2009, 11:32pm

AustinSkater wrote:

As compared to my DF, yes. I have been blown into the grass on one ride, and shoved into the next lane on another.

I wonder if a difference between our Corsas is causing this or riding style? I've ridden DF bikes for over 30 years and within about 3 months the Corsa was far more stable in crosswinds for me. Actually, it was the first heavy crosswind ride on the Corsa which happened to be about 3 months and it was still a pretty stock Corsa at that point. How far back do you have the seat set? I wonder if having it fairly upright causes more instability.

In speed-descents with crosswinds I'm still a bit shaky but it's me who is shaky, not the Corsa. That and hard cornering I still need to work on a lot to get anywhere near what I could do on a DF road bike. I have been in crosswinds that blew me around a bit but I was running my coroplast panniers on the rear and the ~40mph wind gusts picked up my rear wheel and set it a foot or two to the side, but that has only happened with the panniers on and I'm pretty sure it was lift on the panniers, not just pushing the bike that caused the problem.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by Kwijybow on Apr 30^th, 2009, 9:33am

regarding crosswinds Rich Pinto says the Bacchettas do so well because the side pressure ends up acting on the bike closer to the rear wheel contact patch or something like that, and that it actually improves with a rear disc and normal front wheel. That and the superman position gives better leverage on the bars. I think I've paraphrased that correctly. My experience bears that out. I prefer not to have the deep dish front aero wheel on in the wind though.

Take Care,
Nelson.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by jcsadowski on Apr 30^th, 2009, 10:31am

I have a Giro 26 and i have not had any serious cross wind problems this spring and I have ridden on some very windy days.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by irodguy on Apr 30^th, 2009, 11:16am

The only cross wind issues I had was on the Strada with a fairing on the front of it. The fairing caught the side wind and caused me to have to lean the bike into the wind to stay up. Fairing are great with the wind behind you or going into the wind, but sideways can be an issue in very high winds.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by evblazer on Apr 30^th, 2009, 12:09pm

jcsadowski wrote:

I have a Giro 26 and i have not had any serious cross wind problems this spring and I have ridden on some very windy days.

goatstick mentioned it but what is mounted on the bike made a big difference for me.
On my Giro 26 the Aerotrunk caused it to try and dive the opposite way which I need to unlearn countering a crosswind by leaning hard into the wind because that probably contributed to a fall on the Hurricane.
With dual Ortlieb rear panniers it wanted to pickup the rear wheel and sometimes did.
With both the aerotrunk and rear panniers it would slide the rear wheel.
With just an aeropod I just get some pressure but nothing major.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by aikigreg on Apr 30^th, 2009, 12:22pm

Side winds were huge deals for me on the carbent when I rode in December and January. Scary as a matter of fact. I can't imagine why it'd be that much different from a corsa. The wheelbase is longer, the seat is lower, but the wheels are taller of course.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by shellenefoster on Apr 30^th, 2009, 4:17pm

bikerteam wrote:

Mark asked me on the 600k if I like the df or the bent better. I answered without thinking, but have since been contemplating...... I have to admit that I still really miss being able to stand up and climb at a really cool steady pace. However, my climbing on the bent is getting better with every training session, so I'll have to give that a little time. Overall: The bent is so super cool on the downhills and in the flats :D that I'm certain I will not hesitate to prefer my bent in the near future. Besides, the lack of intense pain while riding is probably the most cool thing I could ask for! I believe my df withdrawl symptoms are drawing quickly to a close; I'll be addicted to the bent in no time!

As for wind, no problems on the bent in the wind for me. I still feel the nastyness of the headwinds, but that is just lack of strength development in the legs. Crosswinds aren't any worse than the df for me.

And for cornering: I am a total wimp at cornering now since I took that nasty concussion a while back. My head hurt for days and if Metcalf hadn't been with me I would have been completely lost on roads I had ridden many times before. I couldn't understand the cue sheet nor remember where I was, and I'm no longer willing to risk anything in the corners. I'll just have to work harder to catch up after each corner. So, I can't give any rating of either bike in the corners......

I really just love riding my bike. My bent lets me do that and in fine style 8-)

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by irodguy on Apr 30^th, 2009, 4:32pm

Shellene,

Yep I am being a bit whimpy around corners lately. The three falls on sand in South Florida didn't do me any good. Sand is not our friend! So now that's it's rained a bunch and lots of gravel and stuff around corners, I am taking it easy.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by evblazer on Apr 30^th, 2009, 4:49pm

I have two DFs and am down to a single recumbent which of course I put most of the longer miles on. I did find that riding my road bike this weekend it was a nice change of pace and allowed me to ride with some social upright riders a little better. I also am still hanging onto my fast road bike for when I want to fly through traffic at the 2499/407 nightmare with four corners shopping and lots of construction. Curb hopping, looking over cars and suvs to make a turn and really quick tight turns are required if you want to get through there in a reasonable time. I find it perfectly safe to do it on my hurricane it just takes more time and waiting for bigger openings and such. That and the fact that if my road bike gets damaged or stolen I'm just out a junker [smiley=wink.gif]

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by system-f on Apr 30^th, 2009, 6:52pm

I rode a Sun Tomahawk today and really liked it. The mono-tube construction is slightly bouncy, but not that bad. The rear 700 wheel was really nice and it could be a fast bike. Being a lower priced bike the components were just adequate, but could be upgrade. The brakes were wonderful, though. Citycycle applied to become a Rans dealer today. I am going to see how long it would be before they could get me a V-Rex LE and might just go that route as it is a quality bike I could do many MANY miles on without issue.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by AustinSkater on Apr 30^th, 2009, 7:01pm

system-f wrote:

Something to consider, how many miles is many miles (and will you be doing them all at once - unsupported)? The reason why I ask, when Shellene and I were looking at bikes we limited ourselves to bikes that use the same size wheel, this way we only had to carry a spares kit (2 tubes, 1 tire) for one size, not two.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by Kwijybow on Apr 30^th, 2009, 7:24pm

Like Mark I switched to my DF Single Speed today, and it was a nice change of pace. Its very nice when you have the option to switch back and forth. I certainly know which I want to ride on a anything over 300K (hint - you lie back). Also when it is windy my back always hurts on the DF. Of course that means pretty much any brevet or permanent!

I used to worry more about the tire issue. But front 20" tires are usually pretty much indestructible, so I only carried a rear spare along with tubes for both wheels when I rode the Tour Easy or Stratus on permanents or brevets.

Take Care,
Nelson.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by goatstick on Apr 30^th, 2009, 8:46pm

Kwijybow wrote:

I read that also and it makes sense with what I've observed. I ran a Jet60 on the front Corsa for about 9 months and there wasn't much of a difference compared to the stock rim in crosswinds but a big improvement in speed. Then I put a HED3 on the front (was running one on the rear) and while crosswinds are more of an issue, speeds are even greater and there have been a few times where the sail effect of the front HED3 was obvious. Heading up to Waco last week I was going uphill slightly when the access road curved around and my speed jumped up until the road straightened back up and I lost the wind thrust (from the crosswind), so the HED3 isn't coming off anytime soon if I have anything to say about it. Was pretty cool going uphill at 27mph against a crosswind on ~40 lbs of bike and gear and barely cranking. When I put the HED3 on the rear early last summer the bike really stabilized overall but I think that was mainly due to the wheel flexing less. It's an old HED3 so my next rear wheel might be a disc.

evblazer wrote:

With dual Ortlieb rear panniers it wanted to pickup the rear wheel and sometimes did.

Thanks for saying that. Almost every time I told someone that the wind lifted the rear wheel of my Corsa up off the ground when I had the coroplast panniers mounted I had the feeling they didn't believe me, though it was a little hard for me to believe since I was packing about 25 lbs of gear on the rear of the Corsa when it happened both times. It was a weird effect as the bike didn't really go unstable. The rear end just up and moved over and I kicked out of the left cleat to stabilize, more out of instinct than need, I suspect.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by system-f on Apr 30^th, 2009, 9:17pm

Quote:

The reason why I ask, when Shellene and I were looking at bikes we limited ourselves to bikes that use the same size wheel, this way we only had to carry a spares kit (2 tubes, 1 tire) for one size, not two.

It is funny you mentioned this. I was also concerned about this, but the weight of a second tube doesn't really concern me that much.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by aikigreg on Apr 30^th, 2009, 9:44pm

Mark, do you still ride the xtracycle?

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by evblazer on May 1^st, 2009, 12:26am

I do for shopping trips. I don't have a computer and don't bother logging the miles for it but it still goes. If I can fix the RD so it shifts better with the long unsupported chain I may bring it on a short group ride sometime.
This thing is like riding with a parachute attached when the wind picks up.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2357/1717495617_1cd36a3c52.jpg?v=0

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by AustinSkater on May 1^st, 2009, 6:21am

system-f wrote:

Quote:

It is funny you mentioned this. I was also concerned about this, but the weight of a second tube doesn't really concern me that much.

Not so much the weight of the second tube, that's what I normally carry on my 'bent now, but the weight/space of a complete second set if I was running mismatched tires.

Although Nelson pointed out that he never had any issues with his 20" in the front, I would probably never ride without a spare tire for each wheel if I was running mismatched wheel sizes (or a single spare tire for both wheels if they are the same on long rides - I learned that lesson the hard way).

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by evblazer on May 1^st, 2009, 9:23am

Hm you know I'm going to regret this but I've never had a problem with a 20" or 16" tire (from my old BikE) or tube except when I potholed an underinflated front tire at speed.

I still have spare tubes and tires though so a mismatched tire would mean two tires for me and I usually just want one except for 400k+ distances.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by aikigreg on May 1^st, 2009, 9:31am

I've had a 20" tire go, but with every flat I've had, I think a boot would have been fine and no spare tire needed. I've always carried one on brevets, but I think I'm going to stop and carry a boot instead.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by system-f on May 2^nd, 2009, 8:29pm

Today I took home my first bent bike. I went to plano and rode a V3-aluminum, Giro 26, and cafe. I ALMOST took the Giro 26 home, but it didn't feel 100%. I loved the V-3 and at 26lbs it was light for such a big bike, but the chain guide system sucked on the top side. The top of the chain was hitting the seat seat clamp, but this could have been a setup issue. Regardless I didn't have $3200 for a bike. The Cafe felt very heavy and although I liked the seating position something just didn't feel right. SO....I did even more thinking and went back to City Cycle and picked up the Sun Tomahawk. I really liked the way the Tomahawk road and it didn't feel heavy even though it is a 35lb bike. I know Sun isn't the best brand in the world and I will win no races on this bike but I think it is a good start for me. I will say that if I had found a V-rex I would have bought it without riding all of the other bikes.

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by aikigreg on May 3^rd, 2009, 12:05am

well, even if you end up changing your mind and wanting something later on, bents hold a decent resale value. If I were going to buy a sun, that would have been the only model I would have bothered with. I think you'll end up enjoying it until the next round of bike lust takes over.

So where you coming over for a ride?

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by FlyingLaZBoy on May 3^rd, 2009, 12:42pm

Congrats on the purchase!!! Welcome to the club (again), so to speak...

Title: Re: Curious about recumbents
Post by system-f on May 3^rd, 2009, 7:05pm

Greg, I'm ready to ride whenever you are, but it is going to be slow going for you. Tuesdays and Thursdays are the mountain bike days unless the trails are wet. We could meet half way on the trinity and cruise around? Also, if you see any affordable used older V-REX please let me know. You can NEVER have too many bikes and I really like the rex.

I took the bike on a 28 mile cruise today and it rides better than I thought. The seatback SUCKS, but some foam will fix that. Does anyone know of a local source for 451 tubes and tires?

I am going to have to put this thing on my trailer in order to move it around. I am very lucky to have a small 9'x3' 11" trailer that is perfect for transporting long bikes as well as DFs.