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rbent Forum
https://rbentonline.org/YaBB.pl General Category >> Ride Reports >> RANS V3 test riding https://rbentonline.org/YaBB.pl?num=1204600214 Message started by FlyingLaZBoy on Mar 3rd, 2008, 9:10pm |
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Title: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Mar 3rd, 2008, 9:10pm I've got the steel frame RANS V3 for some test riding, as a higher BB alternative to the SXP, that supposedly has somewhat more stable low speed handling than it's prior cousin, the V26 that Barry has... It's a couple pounds heavier than the SXP, but the price is about $1500... http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/100_7659.jpg It only comes with disc brakes, primarily due to the pedal position vs. the front fork -- there's no room for V-brakes (mentioned previously in The Recumbent Blog). The handlebar consists of a straight riser about 19" long, connected to a wide U-bar that puts the ends of the grips about 24" apart. The seat height for the SXP is listed at 21", vs. 23.5" for the V3, and the specs say that the BB is at 26", almost 10" higher than on the SXP -- you can definitely see this difference in the pic: http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/100_7674.jpg I can really feel this difference in basic seat height when I'm stopped, sitting with my feet down. Someone with shorter legs could have trouble reaching the ground comfortably! And the seat height increases as you move forward (i.e., for shorter legs)... I keep my seat recline on the SXP at about 55 degrees from horizontal, so I anticipated being able to recline signficantly more on the V3. However, despite the higher BB position, the maximum useable seat recline is about 5 holes from the end of the flute tube, resulting in approximately a 45 degree seatback angle from horizontal. This is due to two things -- once again, the seat starts digging into backs of the legs, and This is also about how far I can go and still comfortably reach the grips. (And I purchase 35/36" shirt sleeve lengths) Reclined totally (last notch), I can barely touch the grips, and the seatpad interferes badly. This reach issue could be corrected by an angled riser (that RANS offers), but it would still require a different style seat cushion/pad to take maximum advantage of recline. http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/SeatRecline.jpg Another interesting thing about this bike -- this must be an XL frame, because on my SXP, the seat position is about 4" from the furthest back I can put it. On this V3, the seat is ONE INCH from the very FRONT of the adjustment range!!! This was surprising, because the specs don't indicate this should be this difference... http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/100_7661.jpg I put SPD pedals on, and went for a short ride. It felt pretty good, and I intentionally went up a short hill as slowly as I could -- the handing feels just FINE, with no noticeable wheel flop. Unfortunately, after about 5 minutes of riding around my neighborhood, it started sleeting and raining... so that was the end of THAT for today. I spent the next rainy hour or so putting on a computer, adjusting the disc brakes, etc. http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/100_7667.jpg I'm planning on riding it more during the week, and taking it on a couple 40 milers this weekend. I'll letcha know how it goes... ;) Right off the top, I'd say if you're looking at one of these, get an angled riser and a seat different than the "standard" style. |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by bent_eagle on Mar 3rd, 2008, 10:58pm Interesting. Thanks, Paul. We'll be following your ride reports. I always thought the V3 was a cool-looking LWB. I'm surprised to see that it is so different from the SXP, but this is the first time I've seen a pic of the two side-by-side like that. Good point about the seat pad interference too. This bike looks like a good candidate for the new Hoagie seat, or maybe the Bacchetta Euromesh with the new universal mounting system. How did you score a V3 for an extended test-ride? |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by Kwijybow on Mar 4th, 2008, 9:26am Hi Paul, I too continue to be surprised that the Stratus XP is lower than everything you've compared it too. For me lower is defintely better. And it looks alot lower than the V3. Now Paul you need to obtain an Xstream! Keep up the great analysis and feedback! Take Care, Nelson. |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by aikigreg on Mar 4th, 2008, 9:51am Wasnt this the bike you tried and dismissed right before the TTTT? |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Mar 4th, 2008, 10:33am aikigreg wrote:
To a certain extent, yes - but that was Barry's aluminium frame V26. http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/104_6033.jpg Since PCF had this bike on the floor, and I'd heard/read comments about the improvements put into the V3 (such that they pulled the V26 from production!), I thought it was worth checking out. I'm definitely interested in the improved "non-faired" aerodynamics of more recline, but want to stay with LWB style... But it's also at/near the top end of what I'm wanting to spend to come up with something for Terrie -- I don't have the bucks (or impetus) to upgrade myself to a $3500+ bike, so I'm thinking possibly get this one for an alternative bike for myself, and have her ride the SXP when we go out together -- she doesn't like recline much past 60 degrees (on a BIKE, y'all, on a BIKE... ;) ). The folks at PCF have been very nice about loaning out bikes, for which I'm very appreciative... And the Terratrike was gotten from RBM, courtesy of Glynn... |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Mar 4th, 2008, 2:31pm Kwijybow wrote:
Part of that is perspective of the camera lens -- but the seat is DEFINITELY higher on the V3... PB |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by Opus the Poet on Mar 4th, 2008, 2:41pm Paul that's the same bike they were trying to get me to take a test ride on last week when I went to buy a new cassette for Frankie. I didn't have my helmet with me (or my legs either, I gotta get back in shape) nor do I have enough money to drop $1500 on a new bike :'( but that bike looks nice. Opus |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Mar 4th, 2008, 3:18pm Just an observation -- The Stratus XP that PCF has had on the floor is out on loan at the moment, as well... PB |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Mar 4th, 2008, 6:50pm OK, got to take the bike out for about 10 miles total after work... I've got a Fastback storage bag/pack on the seatback, and SPD pedals put onto it. The seat RadLoc is about 1" from the frontmost stop, and the seat is at roughly 45 degrees. With the seat in this position, I have to hold my arms out almost straight to fully grasp the grips. It's workable, but I could stand a closer reach -- I've asked PCF about ordering an angled riser that would bring them in about 4" closer -- which if nothing else should help them to sell the bike to whomever! The ride is nice, for sure, reminiscent of the SXP -- and the additional recline spreads one's weight better across the seatback. I didn't have any chipseal to test out, but should this weekend. Vibration came through the handlebars more than on the SXP, but it's a different riser. At stops, the seat height comes into play -- I could stay reclined, but had to extend a toe to reach the ground -- so people with an inseam less than 32" may have some ground reach issues... I went to my neighborhood 8-10% grade hills, to intentionally try slow speed climbing Looking downhill: http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/100_7681.jpg Looking uphill: http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/100_7682.jpg It's about 500 feet in length. I put the bike in lowest gear (30 granny and 32 back), and proceeded to do the whole thing at 2.5 to 3 mph -- steering/handling was really no problem, certainly no more than one might expect going that slowly. My pedaling pace was very similar to walking uphill. At "regular" speeds, the bike feels very stable -- possibly even more "hands off" than the SXP, actually! I then went UP the hill, holding 15 mph without significant problem -- so climbing hard still works nicely. I then found my favorite slight downhill of about 1/4 mile, and cranked it up -- topped out at 30mph, and didn't notice any significant flexing of the frame or BB. The handlebar riser is more solid than the chopper bars on the SXP, but that's no surprise -- so you can pull harder if needed. I had a couple "close calls" with knee/handlebar interference on slow tight turns, while testing that specifically -- but I can see how you just get used to it. On turns at regular speeds, there were no issues. One other thing - the middle chainring is a 39T instead of a 42T -- this is a noticeably friendlier gear to use when starting from dead stop, yet cruising speeds of 18-20 mph can still easily be reached with the 39T. I LIKE this bike.... :) Wonder how fast PCF can get an angled riser in? |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Mar 5th, 2008, 11:05am OK, using it for work commuting today... :) It (obviously) fits on my Saris Guardian rack, and is much less "top heavy" than the SXP! http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/100_7685.jpg http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/100_7688-1.jpg The view in the mirror... http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/100_7689.jpg Aerotrunk installed, at "8th hole" seat recline for commuting http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/100_7690.jpg With the seat recline up to the 8th hole (in "commuter" mode at about 55 degrees, with Aerotrunk on back), the handlebar reach is more natural. And in reclined mode, I have to stretch out a toe to reach the ground at stops -- in commuter mode, I can "flatfoot" support. More natural handlebar grip reach in this position http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/100_7693.jpg Flatfoot stop with this seat recline http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/100_7699.jpg Having fun with the bank teller -- "What is DAT you are riding???? Dat looks fun!" :D http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/100_7697.jpg |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Mar 5th, 2008, 11:16am I noticed a clicking noise coming from the grips area this morning, while riding... http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/th_100_7694.jpg (http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/?action=view¤t=100_7694.flv) Upon further investigation, it's got something to do with the brake caliper mechanism where the cable goes in, but I don't know if it's "fixable" http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/th_100_7701.jpg (http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/?action=view¤t=100_7701.flv) |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Mar 5th, 2008, 1:20pm I'm probably boring the hell out of most of you, but I find this increasingly fascinating... Looking back at the pics of Barry's V26, I was reminded about the design of the frame -- so I cobbled together a comparison pic of the V3 (top) and V26 (bottom) frames. http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/V3_V26Frames.jpg Notice that the V26 frame centerline (bottom photo) is aligned relatively straight towards the rear axle point, similar in style to the Easy Racer "Javelin" concept. It also had dual lower tubes, braced in "triangle" fashion vertically in two places along the run. The V3 is more like the SXP, in it's triangular design -- and the seat / main tube DOES sit higher vs. the back wheel, due to the rise of the rear support tube. Also, take a look at how they changed the BB position, ever so slightly (V3 on top): http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/BBpos.jpg It's an inch or two closer to the head tube, presumably for even more stiffness. Kewl. PB |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by Bud_Bent on Mar 5th, 2008, 6:52pm Interesting. I was curious what the difference was between the V26 and V3. |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by aikigreg on Mar 5th, 2008, 9:23pm I *love* the bank teller picture. You should seriously send it into the recumbent blog. |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Mar 6th, 2008, 9:37am As you saw, I used the V3 for commuting purposes yesterday... Had my Aerotrunk on the seatback, with the seat recline at about 55 degrees as mentioned previously, so the Trunk was fairly level -- there was plenty of rear wheel clearance, about 4 inches. My route is mostly side streets, with a bit of sidewalk and concrete greenbelt trail mixed in. I'd venture to say that I felt the sidewalk seam bumps a bit more than usual, but that's probably due to the 1" tires vs. the 1.25s I have on the SXP for commuting. I've felt a subtle difference in balance on this bike, but nothing worrisome, and believe I could easily adapt to the higher BB position quickly. Balance and handling were really not an issue at any time, and I'm a few inches higher than on the SXP, regarding eye level contact with drivers. I could "flatfoot" my stops with the seat recline set here (8th hole). I felt more bump transfer to the handlebars on this bike, but that's probably due to having the more flexible chopper bars on the SXP - but you can definitely pull harder on this riser, too. From a component standpoint, I think I detect a difference in the SRAM X5 vs the X9 I'm used to -- I've had a few mis-shifts and slips under power, both front and rear, but I'm really not sure if it's due to component level or just slight adjustments need to be made to limit stops -- and I'm not planning to investigate any further, really. I'm not a components geek... :D The disc brakes have been trouble-free, with no rubbing, and excellent stopping power. I could "lock 'em up" if I needed to... but I hope they can come up with a V-brake method -- you don't need discs in flat Texas... No comments either way about the JetSet (Made in Taiwan) wheels, really -- and I had no spoke issues. Just for fun, I weighed the front wheel on a 5-pound postal scale: With wheel, 26.1 Racer tire, tube, and brake rotor, the complete front wheel weighed 3.4 pounds. I didn't have my Velocity Thracian or DA-16 from the SXP to compare to... The weather here sucks for the next few days, so I'm going to return the baby to the LBS, and say "thankyouverymuch!" My overall impressions from two days and about 30 miles on the bike are that it's definitely a potential keeper, but, again, to take advantage of max recline, you need a different seat and an angled handlebar riser -- and if this is an XL frame, you will definitely need a regular frame if your X-seam is under 41-42... The quoted 33 pound weight is essentially the same as my XL SXP, so it ain't no thang... and it fits either on a regular DF-style Saris Guardian rack, or inside the PT Cruiser with the passenger seat down. For the price, it's nice! Th-th-th-that's all, folks! Enjoy, Paul |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by aikigreg on Mar 6th, 2008, 10:21am I gotta say though, and maybe I'm just a weight weenie, but I can't see there being enough significant difference between the two to warrant buying a new bike. Not once in your posts did you say "holy crap - I'm blown away!" In *my* mind therefore, you'd be outlaying cash for only a minor aero gain. When I traded the baron for the Tica for example, which are in many ways the same bikeI knew I'd get some aero advantage with the ability to recline the seat more, but I was sure the biggest difference would come from the 5 pound weight reduction, and I was right. Blown away doesn't begin to describe it. The difference was awesome and immediately noticeable. So in my mind (warped as it may be!), given that you have two bikes of equal weight, you're not really getting anything on the deal. You need to wait for the x-stream. It's got to be around the 26 pound mark. You'll be blown away my friend! It's insane what taking 5 pounds off the bike does. |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by Bud_Bent on Mar 6th, 2008, 11:11am aikigreg wrote:
Did you miss the fact that he's really just shopping for a bike for Terrie, either buying one so she can ride the XP when they both ride, or just buying her a bike? If he was just doing an upgrade, and getting rid of the XP, I don't think this would be the bike. |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Mar 6th, 2008, 11:50am Bud_Bent wrote:
Well, there's the obvious concept of upgrading MY ride, along those lines... Terrie can't/won't ride this bike. But as stated earlier, I'm not currently in the market for a $3,000-ish self-upgrade that a 5+ pound lighter bike is going to cost... which is why I looked at the V3. I'm not even really in the market for a $2200ish Corsa... but I'm interested in more recline. Transporting the SXP on the rack with the fairing is a bit of a pain, although I've been doing it for a couple years. But there are definitely no plans to get rid of it! I'm not "blown away," but I'm definitely impressed by the handling... Rick's made me a decent offer to build up another SXP with the frame he's got, and I'm considering THAT, as well. (Or buy Charlie's!) Matching SXPs! ;D What to do, what to do.... :-/ But I appreciate the recommendation, Greg!!! Anyway, I figured I'd do a review of the V3 while I had it, for future reference purposes for anyone interested. PB |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by aikigreg on Mar 6th, 2008, 2:45pm Bud_Bent wrote:
No, but I remember her saying at the concert how adverse she was to higher BB bikes, so at this point, I assumed he had said to heck with her and was shopping for himself. ;D However, the idea that he might give his old bike to her and upgrade to this for himself, did escape me :) |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Mar 6th, 2008, 2:54pm aikigreg wrote:
I'm still a newlywed, Greg -- nowhere NEAR saying "to heck with her" ;D But you're right, the steel V3 wouldn't be so much of an "upgrade" as it would be an "addition" or "lateral move" ... :D I've got some longer seat struts / flute tubes on order, to determine if we can get the seatback recline up enough for her comfort, since the seat will have to be about 5" further forward on the XL frame. The current 6" long flute tube last hole position isn't enough, but the "standard" tube is 9" and may do the job. Her birfday is May 10th... ;) |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by Bud_Bent on Mar 6th, 2008, 6:19pm Since it appears you are going to remain a lwb kind of guy, have you considered hitches for both vehicles, and a Draftmaster rack? |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Mar 6th, 2008, 8:17pm Bud_Bent wrote:
Not really, simply again because of the $$$$$$.... Probably, eventually... although that would be quite a sight on a Prius!!! :D |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Jun 28th, 2008, 6:12pm PCF has the aluminum version of the V3 on the floor, as of 6/28. It's VERY light, I could take it off the rack with one hand. It must have just gone up, because it didn't even have pedals on it. Greg offered to, and I said, "You bet!" So I got to do a brief test ride (before our RANS trip, ironically enough). But I didn't take any photos... :( One negative, IMHO -- it has the "Zephyr" seat, with a very thin seatpad and carbon fibre seat pan. This is a very light seat, but for MY rear end and lower back, it is NOT comfortable... http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g73/flyinglazboy/dadc23b4.jpg It's got the classic "lip" on the back of the seatpan -- which on this particular seat, REALLY digs into my tailbone. I'm definitely gonna ask Randy about this on Monday.... :) This bike has the angled riser to bring the grips back further, and for my ~41" XSeam, the seat setting was about 1" from the furthest back position. I rode it around the lot with the "medium" seatback recline, then laid it significantly further back, and rode up and down the street some. This seatback is curved somewhat like the "M5" design, and I immediately noticed that when cranking on the pedals hard, you get support for your upper back and shoulders in response -- compared to the "standard" SXP seat, where your push support is more lower-back related. If I recline too much with that one, I slide up the seatback -- you don't get that with the Zephyr. With the seatback reclined like this, the seatpan was even LESS comfortable, and I could just reach the handlebars enough. However, with the thinner seatpad, I was also able to reach the ground much easier than on the steel version -- which may have also been a difference in relative seatrail position (near the front vs. near the back). But this bike will MOVE... and with a different style seat, would be sweet... It's VERY responsive, although the front end felt a little light to me - but I had just done 64 miles on the SXP... The ride was sorta stiff, but that's to be expected from an aluminum frame. The main tube is 2" diameter. [The paint job is BEAUTIFUL -- silver and red metal flake...] I encourage folks to go check it out.... and if nothing else give some feedback on the Zephyr seat concept. This is a bike to lay back and FLY on.... |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by Bud_Bent on Jun 28th, 2008, 7:02pm Wow, sounds like a cool bike. I've never gotten to try out a Zephyr seat. Do you suppose that's the same seat pan as the regular RANS seats have? That lip in the back is what doesn't want to work for me on my RANS seat. I had never noticed it on Rose's Stratus, but her seat is much more upright than mine on my SXP, and when you recline the seat more, that's when the lip tends to become a problem for some of us. And if it's a problem, the thin seat cover makes it worse. I've just put a thin seat cover up for trade in the Marketplace forum. |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by aikigreg on Jun 28th, 2008, 10:00pm I'm certain Randy will have a solution for you - even if it's just "Lose some weight!" :P |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by bikerteam on Jun 29th, 2008, 6:59am PCF ordered this bike for me to test. They called me on Thursday and I went up there on Friday. Greg offered for me to take it home, however, because of my work schedule I declined. I rode the V3 for about an hour. I DO NOT like the Z seat. It dug into my shoulders. I loved everything else about the bike, the ride feel, the lightness, the paint... I would definately order this bike with the M5 carbon, and no additional cost. I was amazed at how light the bike is, and also how quickly I was able to get it up to a brisk pace. I calle |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by Richard on Jun 29th, 2008, 2:45pm Paul, I have the old zephyr seat on my home made. The lip on the back is painful on a long ride. Just take the old dremel and cut the lip off as much as you like. I also added a 2" piece of webbing at the base of the seat across the back to prevent my butt from pushing so far back into the back. That's part of what makes the lip uncomfy. The back will stretch and let you sink into it. I also stuck an additional 1/2 inch of foam in the well area. I rode it about 10 miles on father's day and did not even notice the seat. RichardC http://c:\documents and settings\owner\desktop\dsc00007 |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Jul 1st, 2008, 10:11am One of the great things about the trip to the RANS factory was that we got to sit on basically every seat style they have... and it turns out that the Zephyr on the V3 at Plano doesn't have the pad on right -- with the Zephyrs we sat on up there, I did not have any "rear pan ridge" issues whatsoever (and unlike Steve's "sit bones" comment below, the seat cushion area itself felt fine to me). The mesh should come down all the way to the seatpad, with essentially no gap, solving the problem. However, the rails going up the sides of the back DID hit me in the shoulder blades, and in the kidney area, sorta... which didn't really come into play until about 15 minutes or so of riding -- and I could feel it flex when I pushed hard to accelerate -- so that's definitely not the seat for ME... |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by Strada177 on Jul 1st, 2008, 11:06am FlyingLaZBoy wrote:
I agree 100%. I test rode a F-5 with the Zephyr seat,& I had to stop just over a mile into the test ride because the seat was so uncomfortable for me. I cannot imagine completing a rando event/club ride on this seat. It appeared to me that the seat had very little padding. My "sit bones" were screaming-"get off this seat". |
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Title: Re: RANS V3 test riding Post by FlyingLaZBoy on Jul 5th, 2008, 10:17pm ONe thing occured to me today, about the V3, is that the Ti version I rode in KS did NOT have disc brakes. The steel version comes with disc brakes, whereas the Al and Ti versions apparently both have V-brakes... I didn't think they could put V-brakes on it due to the BB closeness to the head tube, but I guess I was wrong! |
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